I'd like to do something productive over the winter and learn something new. What are the costs involved in rebuilding something like an M52B28? What kind of work is involved? Talk to me :)
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I'd like to do something productive over the winter and learn something new. What are the costs involved in rebuilding something like an M52B28? What kind of work is involved? Talk to me :)
A lot. Few grand at least to do it right! :surprised:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter-E36
Hmm... What about an M44? I'm not looking to do anything crazy, it would be a learning experience. I'd like it to be useful when finished though. No point rebuilding a 1.6..
Still talking good money regardless, prob better just getting a cheap engine and dismantling ;)
Even then a few grand minimum. I have two of these spare and boxes and have been looking into it hugely and any way you cut it will cost a packet. Check this out for a quick example where those that "know" were having the chat about such a thing: http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=101937Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter-E36
Still going to get an engine stand soon and go tearing one apart :hehe!:
Good man Dave, I'm just itching to do something like that. Just get the hands dirty and get to know the inner workings of it all.
If you are indeed going to take on apart, give us a shout and I will be happy to spin down and give a hand :)
Was doing some googling earlier and ended up reading a full thread on e30owners on an e30 with an M52b28, he didn't rebuild the engine but it was an interesting read nonetheless it was username 327i's build.
If it interests you Enda's e36 thread is a great place to start. Very detailed in what was done but maybe not how it was done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter-E36
It's been a while since I've read Enda's thread, must check it out again!
I'd be getting a spare engine to flute around with if I was you. Wouldn't be pulling the engine apart unless there was a good reason to, you could end up half way there and ballsing it up and be left with out an engine
Oh my engine ain't going nowhere :D it's perfect (thank god). I just wanted to get a different engine and rebuild it "for the craic" but it seems no matter what engine it is it will be hugely expensive so that's out the window :( but as the guys mentioned, picking up an old engine for cheap and taking it apart just out of interest and putting it back together might be good to learn. It seem M44s can change hands for as little as 150 euro so it's not a lot for something to keep busy with over winter :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TheRev
If you want to rebuild an engine it's probably best to start with something simple and light.
Even an M44 when stripped to it's components is pretty heavy. An engine stand makes the job a lot easier.
You'd need the right tools, socket sets, torque ratchet, piston ring compressor. I think the bolt which holds on the crankshaft pulley on the front of an M44 is torqued to around 300lbs so you need a pretty serious torque ratchet to do the job.
Then there's the likes of replacement parts, seals, piston rings, main bearings, connecting rod bearings, gaskets and a lot of bolts which are torqued to yield have to be replace.
Building an engine is a lot of fun but there can be some serious expense involved if you're starting from scratch
I think I'll buy some lego instead... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EndaC
^^ haha
What about a motorbike engine? Something small and cheap?
Or one of these
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...mL._SX425_.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Haynes-4-Cylinder-Combustion-Engine/dp/B000YX7OXO
You must be getting tired of typing that at this stage :tounge:Quote:
Originally Posted by EndaC
Out of curiosity what was the first engine you did?
First would probably have been in a single cylinder Petter Atomic Engine from the 1930s. First four cylinder would have been from a 1956 MAN tractor. First 6 cylinder was a 1956 Leyland UE350 5.7 litre. First modern engine was my M44. Who know's what'll be next...
Would be cool alright, but part of the appeal was that I could possibly use the engine at some stage down the line but I would have no use for a motorbike engine, unless I use Clarkson as a source of inspiration and make a motorbike engine powered kitchen appliance.. At least I could tell herself it was a gift for her all along :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Chrispyfish
Impressive stuff :) I vote something V8!Quote:
Originally Posted by EndaC
build a b16 peter easy to work on and cheap
My father build his s50 latley
http://www.e30owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22551
I'd say if you want to rebuild the m52 go for it, pick up an engine and even if it takes you 6 months to buy all the parts for a rebuild it's not like you need the engine straight away
At least when it's built you actually have a engine you want to use
I started stripping my old m50, head went in her years ago...fuck me the parts are heavy! So for dicking around the likes of a Honda SiR engine is handy, light and afaik reasonably cheap - in terms of rebuilding
The b16a is a fantastic little engine alright, had it in a few cars and it never ceased to entertain me and/or put a smile on my face everytime I went for a spin! Might start with that Haynes model first and see how I get on :D
dear peterQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter-E36
rebuilding with an experienced person is enjoyable if it is cost effective IE rebuilding a rare engine or blueprinting an existing one for racing .
generally you would need a formidable reason to do it when a SH engine is the best solution.
you will need a magnetic dial gauge and stand and a straight edge the length of your block and head --not a ruler or a plank .
you will need plasticgauge and on review of this leave the bore measuring and block measurements to the machine shop and let them examine the bearings and shaft -- leave the shaft in the block as they will distort merly resting against the wall .
a book on engine blueprinting will have most of the ground covered as a book on rebuilding an engine is useless when you come across dodgy work done by a previous learner --you need to measure everything twice and pay close attention to existing wear on the engine and piston height and valve protrusion as many heads are skimmed without dropping the valves --check the radius on the shaft also as many are too lazy to change the grinding wheel when grinding off the grinding edge on the shaft--do not have a go on your own it is not fun . bugs
as " bugs " said ,rebuild should be in NEED of it .race ,rare or future high mileage engine i would call them .
For race - where U need to be sure engine will last without any headaches
Rare - when second hand engine cant be got and yours is fucked
Future high mileage - lets say diesel,if u know u gonna do lot of driving and u want to be sure in it same as in race cars engine ,u rebuild it ,as second hand one will be only temporary problem solver
Of course its few other small reasons . if your engine is running perfect ,cylinder compression test is perfect ,cylinder leakage test is fine ,not burning oil ,as i believe your M52 is ,whats the reason to spend money there? just to get it rebuild ?? but how much u gonna spend ? what u want to get from it ? how long u think u gonna have that car ?have u done even roughly estimate what it would cost? will it make sense in your cars price in the future ?
lets say Enda have done rebuild ,but it was few reasons i see there .its daily driver and does mileage on it .most of these engines are in so so condition with these days mileages and second hand one is only NO NO .
so just think twice and do estimates first ,and only if your engine NEEDS attention ,but at the end of the day its only your choice
I can only imagine the intent was to get a cheap engine and take it apart for both the curiosity and learning aspects?
Sent from my Vodafone Smart II using Tapatalk 2
some people still get good wages if can do "engine rebuild" just for curiosity or learning aspects :surprised:Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom
and some of them do their last mileages on DD as unfinished projects
Thanks for the replies folks, much appreciated :)
As mentioned my engine is fine thankfully. I wanted to get a spare engine to play with basically just to learn more about cars! It seems I underestimated what would be involved though. Would love to do a project like that with someone who knows what they're doing.
Fair point too I guess. :) you should do a thread the next time you build one would be a good readQuote:
Originally Posted by Valdelisbmw
Haha, would be nice to have that kind of spare cash :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valdelisbmw
How did you start taking engines apart/rebuilding them Valdas?
buy a cheap 1.4 civic.... then build a b16 and throw it in hahaha
not common these days :hehe!: never done full rebuild in Ireland ,just refresh ,one of them was E30 with M20B25 .Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom
had few ideas for my self ,but every time i think twice and every time i say why i need this . i have one of best engines in my car S50B32 ,if i need more power i can get it ,but its some money to do this ,and to do this properly ,if i cant do it properly whats the point to do ,and again if it will not be used in full power , as power without control is nothing !!its like never ending story :wink:
it all depends on which way u want to rebuild it .Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter-E36
most i have done was diesels ,for future high mileages ,from small cars up to big buses .
even full rebuild can be done full and expensive or budget .
budget when u need to replace less parts as u can ,but with one reason -IT SHOULD LAST and with GUARANTEE ! old pistons and rods , old valves , oil pump ,some gears and so on.
so thats mean its just much more measuring ,u must double check every part,and be sure it will last another engines life .every engine has its soft places . some valves worn on their top part,some of them worn badly its main body there it slides in valves guide,some of them worn their part there valve locks sits and so on. valve guides .valve seats ,and angles on seats .valve seat position in head ,how deap is sitting and how deep it can go in, as if its too deep,that mean valve will be too high in the head and valve adjustment or hydraulic tappet clearance will not be enough to adjust valve ,if not enough space to leave it free by recommended clearances ,u will have bent valve ,leaking pressure,burned valve not perfect working or not working at all engine. cam and crank wear in term of head ,block or bearing wear . the place there cam or crank seal sits on them . cylinder wear out ,piston wear , con rod wear to edge size .head condition ,even after head is skimmed ,it doesnt mean its straight .u have only skimmed place there it will sit on the engine block,but it could be not straight it self by camshaft position . camshaft will not be turning free and it will reduce engines power,worst - camshaft will broke in few peaces ,yes this happens most on diesel cars but can happen on petrol as well and mostly after overheat . engine block it self can be not straight and crank will not turn easy as well ,same story as with head . oil pump condition ,where and what to check.gaskets ,o rings , bolts , where u can or cant use silicone ,which gasket is better as lot suppliers- makes are available and make different quality parts .
and when u do full only new parts rebuild .u throw out all old stuff as u dont care how bad they are ,as they will be replaced by new ones ,so little bit less measuring
omg ,i must go sleep now :hehe!: i dont have off tomorrow
Go away out of that you love talking about this :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valdelisbmw
Random Idea: If you have room, Why not buy something simple like a classic Mini and restore it yourself?
Nearly everything is available for them and you'll grt some mechanical experience. :)
It won't be cheap, You'll wonder why you even started... But you could have a cool toy you put together yourself. :cool:
I just read back over this thread and while there's lots of good advice on the cost of building a high quality long lasting / race engine I wonder if that's really what you're looking for?
If you just want to become more familiar with the internal workings of an engine I'd say just do it.
You could buy any e36 that runs, take it apart and see how all the bits work. Then put it back together, maybe even fixing a few things along the way. If it runs then great but if not you'll still learn something.
At very worst you can break the car at the end and recover most of the cost.
That is exactly what I did and I'd recommend it. :smiling:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH
If it's something you want to do to learn Peter then pick up an engine that will actually serve you all going well with the end result.
As Enda said the expense doesn't just end on the parts for the engine it also involves tooling up and buying what's needed as you go along. You could buy a large tool kit but there will always be things it doesn't have especially for rebuilding an engine. So buy a good comprehensive socket set and then buy as you need. Space is also another factor to consider and the area should be kept clean and dry. And where possible definitely an engine stand which in itself with an engine bolted to it shall use quite a lot of room.
Neatness and being methodical will be your friend in an engine rebuild.
Outside costs should also be considered, I.E : a machine shop for testing the heads condition and skimming etc if necessary. Parts would run into €€€€'a but if it's a slow burn you won't feel it nearly as much. My advice would to buy a very advanced model engine rebuild kit (surely someone makes them) and start with this, that way you won't be investing big money or trying to find time and space :).
Hope this helps [emoji6]
EDIT : Bloody Tapatalk didn't show all the replies till now. looks like your question has been well and truly answered Peter.
www.instagram.com/super4bmw
I know it's not a bm engine but I think you will enjoy watching his clips. You will get an idea of tools needed and may also pick up some tips.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mpy_By5aIxM
Excellent watch :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by E46Padge
Peter this might be a decent one to just take apart for the fun of it?
http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=107721
Cheers Chris saw that alright, I've reconsidered the whole thing and decided it wouldn't really be suitable for me at the moment, but I hope I will at some stage!