E36 rubbing issue

Hi all,

Looking for some advice. I recently put new shocks in the 328, along with a pro kit. I replaced the wishbones with meyle hd arms and bushes, Ive also put in m3 top mounts.

Im getting rubbing on the arch liner on both sides when im at about 70% lock. I originally thought it was rubbing on the inside of the wheel well so i got spacers to cure my problem to no avail. Its like the wheel itself is sitting off centre in the arch and causing rubbing while turning.

Any ideas or cures for this issue? Im running sunflowers with a standard profile.

Ill stick up a pic in an hour or so.

Cheers.

The car sitting lower than it was before? The top mounts pull the top of the wheel in closer to the chassis, could be the cause?

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Originally Posted by Hobbs

The car sitting lower than it was before? The top mounts pull the top of the wheel in closer to the chassis, could be the cause?

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Yep idea was to give it negative camber, but i dont think thats the issue. Its actually sitting a good bit higher than it was while it was on the coilovers . Two mins and I'll get a pic up, might highlight the issue clearer :)

Was the car aligned after all of the suspension work?

Pic of the issue, actually don't know if it made it any clearer :hehe!:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...673/y7eeiw.png
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...538/aXp2Rk.png
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Was the car aligned after all of the suspension work?

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Yep, got the sheet back when I collected the car, to be honest I didn't pay a massive amount of attention to the read out. May try locate it.

When you were working at it you hardly dislodged/moved the plastic liners?

Have a similar issue rubbing on the front screw missing from the arch liner so it wasnt correctly in place

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hobbs

When you were working at it you hardly dislodged/moved the plastic liners?

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Yep took them off to underseal the arches during the summer. Was missing a screw which i thought was the culprit, but only on one side and replaced it today. All screws are tight and in place. Had them off a few times and didnt have this issue. Its an odd one.

When putting wishbones on the bottom bush part, was that put on the correct angle ? Or did you change the inner bush ?

That's what I was just going to say.i wonder is it a castor problem mabey after fitting the wishbone bushing wrong.

Stupid question but are the rear wheels on the front by any chance? Assuming they are staggered.

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Originally Posted by Mike murphy

That's what I was just going to say.i wonder is it a castor problem mabey after fitting the wishbone bushing wrong.

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I didn't fit the wishbone bushing, I presume its correct, looks okay. Is the standard bushing, as in its not offset. And was just the bushing pressed into the mount that was fitted. Is there anyway to tell its okay? Was thinking along the line of a castor issue, I was getting rubbing on the drivers side when I had the coilovers, but that was due to the arch liner missing a screw. I'm now getting it in the same place on both sides
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by John_D

Stupid question but are the rear wheels on the front by any chance? Assuming they are staggered.

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Yep they are staggered, nope rears are on the rear :wink:

Using the m3 top mounts gives a little more negative castor too though? Itd be a pain to change them to standard ones though to see if thats the issue!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hobbs

Using the m3 top mounts gives a little more negative castor too though? Itd be a pain to change them to standard ones though to see if thats the issue!

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It does indeed, it could be causing the rubbing, but I was under the impression its a fairly common mod with no i'll effects?

Would be a serious pain to change back to standard just to test it :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ketron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hobbs

Using the m3 top mounts gives a little more negative castor too though? Itd be a pain to change them to standard ones though to see if thats the issue!

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It does indeed, it could be causing the rubbing, but I was under the impression its a fairly common mod with no i'll effects?

Would be a serious pain to change back to standard just to test it :D

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I've run both standard and evo mounts reversed for many miles with no issues of rubbing. The wheels were genuine motorsports what ever the size should be. Are all the tyres the same size? I know Dean on here had rubbing issues on the front until he used spacers? Maybe worth a pm? Is it the correct wishbone?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Venom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ketron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hobbs

Using the m3 top mounts gives a little more negative castor too though? Itd be a pain to change them to standard ones though to see if thats the issue!

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It does indeed, it could be causing the rubbing, but I was under the impression its a fairly common mod with no i'll effects?

Would be a serious pain to change back to standard just to test it :D

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I've run both standard and evo mounts reversed for many miles with no issues of rubbing. The wheels were genuine motorsports what ever the size should be. Are all the tyres the same size? I know Dean on here had rubbing issues on the front until he used spacers? Maybe worth a pm? Is it the correct wishbone?

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Its a strange one alright.

If the wheel was rubbing on the inner chassis leg, spacers would help. Looks to be rubbing in the centreish of the arch so adding spacers would actually compound the problem because the scrub radius would be increased. Ie - the wheel would be further away from the centre pivot point of the hub. If you get me?

as hobbs said the top mounts will give negative castor , moving the wheel closer to the back of the arch.
And being lower it will be closer again to the point where it's making contact. My car was rubbing similar to yours on 225 45 17 . A change to 215 45 17 solved it .
xxx45rxx the 45 is a percentage of the width in height, in other words bigger radius

Hmmmm I ideally dont want to change my tires, they are pretty good nick PS3s. I might remove the arch liner and (although the fact its happening on both sides leads me to believe its not the case) refit them to see how I stand.

Its actually fairly high on the front, that is what has me really confused about this. Is there any differences in E36 wishbones through the years and models? Apart from Ms.

Hobbs you're dead right its rubbing on the center of the back of the front arch. I originally thought it was the chassis so I purchased spacers :embarrased: I did fit them but it didn't make the rubbing any worse, but they are only 10mm a side.

After a bit of googling, would the M3 top mounts not give positive castor?

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/UserFiles...try-diag-2.gif

My top mount:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...913/QjuCpR.jpg

And would give negative camber.

EDIT: Deffo have positive castor anyways:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...538/ylzFft.jpg

Isn't that your right turret? That L is supposed to mean left isn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Isn't that your right turret? That L is supposed to mean left isn't it?

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Yep they are reversed, for a bit more camber, common enough to do it so I'm told :)

Hadn't realised your using EVO mounts,I think using them on non-M wishbones causes this issue with the steering I'm sure someone else will confirm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Hadn't realised your using EVO mounts,I think using them on non-M wishbones causes this issue with the steering I'm sure someone else will confirm.

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Haven't heard that one before? :huh: As far as I know (which isnt exactly a whole lot) they are primarly used to give a bit more negative camber. Haven't seen anything about them effecting the steering or having to use them with m wishbones.

evo wishbones move the wheel a little more forward.

Don't take my word for it, I could be wrong it's happened before :tounge:, that bit of camber could be enough to cause inner rubbing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FunkySeeFunkyDoo

Don't take my word for it, I could be wrong it's happened before :tounge:, that bit of camber could be enough to cause inner rubbing.

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:hehe!:

Possibly and it could be that I'm using standard wishbones, really confused because from my web searching and talking to people prior to doing this I was under the impression I shouldnt have ill effects. The camber is quite mild compared to what it was before.

I know prior to the change in the geometry (same as standard arms) of the EVO control arms they used eccentric bushes, but once they were changed they used concentric bushes.

All in a nights googling and I'm none the wiser to what my issue is. :sad: The bushes I used were concentric.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ketron

After a bit of googling, would the M3 top mounts not give positive castor?

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/UserFiles...try-diag-2.gif

My top mount:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...913/QjuCpR.jpg

And would give negative camber.

EDIT: Deffo have positive castor anyways:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...538/ylzFft.jpg

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Apologies, you are right it's positive caster and negative camber

Im wondering if i fit eccentric bushes would that cure my issue? It would give me the equivalent of fitting evo arms and more positive castor, or would it be too much castor and mess with my steering?

Dont want to start throwing money at it if it will make matters worse or not cure the rubbing issue.

Thanks lads.

I had normal wishbones in but then mine is a 318is and not a 328 is there a difference?

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Originally Posted by Venom

I had normal wishbones in but then mine is a 318is and not a 328 is there a difference?

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I think the E36 328i sports used eccentric bushes for awhile, other than than I dont think so. I've been doing a fair bit of googling on the issue.

3l M3's used eccentric bushes and so did the EVOs until the control arm geometry was changed around 1996, then they went back to concentric bushes.

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45638

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f17/1996-e36-m3-evo-wishbone-bush-type-now-delivered-t71173/

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=72&t=655663&nmt=Tramlining+E36+325

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/g/u/533.png

05 Set rubber mounting f wishbone 1 31129059288 $30.37
For vehicles with
M Sports suspension
S704A=Yes
05 Set rubber mounting f wishbone 1 31129059288 $30.37
For vehicles with
Motorsport suspension,indiv. series Avus
05 Set rubber mounting f wishbone 1 06/1992 31129064875 $40.37

It could be quite simply that I have the wrong bush, and actually should be using a eccentric bush. But want to be 100% before I change them out again.