Does a truly exciting diesel car exist?

Back on the Emerald Isle, doing major mileage for the foreseeable future and no amount of man maths can justify a big petrol engine again (trust me I've tried)... It doesn't help that I've been given a diesel eco box to use for the time being and I'm experiencing 55 real world mpg and 115.9 / L for the first time and I gotta tell you... it's bloody awful. All these years I had my head buried in the sand ignoring diesels but my god the economy is truly unbelievable.. Going 700 miles / 1120 km on one tank! And paying 65 euro to fill it?! This may be old news to some but it's mind blowing to me...

Anyway, this is all fairly depressing as it just makes it even more difficult to consider a petrol again. I know from previous experience that the 2 car approach doesn’t work for me so I need an "all in one” diesel solution... and that's the problem. Diesels can do economical, and diesels can do powerful... but can they do exciting? I just can't get excited about a diesel car... I've opened DoneDeal and Carzone and I lose interest before I get to the 2nd page of the search... it feels like what's the point? If it’s going to be boring, it might as well be any old box. Why spend “real” money on a car that doesn’t excite you, a car that doesn’t make you look forward to going to work on a miserable winter’s day just because it’s such a pleasure to drive?

So my question is this, is there a truly exciting diesel car, BMW or otherwise, that would convince a despairing petrol head to actually part with his money for one? I enjoyed every second in my old 335i, it was the right car everywhere, from the daily commute to the track... I wonder can a diesel car truly fill that gap? I'm not so sure...

I’ve driven a 335d and while it’s very powerful indeed, it left me completely cold. I’m curious about what the 123d and 225d are like, no doubt quick, but fun? I just keep thinking of the burble off my old e92 and that snap crackle and pop on the overrun and I can’t help but think “I NEED THAT IN MY LIFE” again… but with the mileage I’ll be doing not even a Dergside man-maths calculator can justify it :D

Is buying a diesel the right option? Probably decent value on them in the UK given the direction they are taking, but we'll follow closely, surely!!

Reckon a M135, might be the perfect all rounder for fun and reasonable practicality!? (as you are considering at 123d...had been thinking the same for herself, but been put off by the turnaround on diesels!)

Given the choice, I'd have another 335i in a heartbeat but I'll be doing at least 6000 km a month (conservative estimate) so it just won't work. It'll have to be diesel I'm afraid!

Welcome back Peter. I've had my 123d for close to a year now and I have to say it's a great all rounder. Since getting it I've averaged 47MPG which isn't too bad although I had hoped for a little better.
It's a quick car and handles very nicely while remaining very comfortable. Last week I had a trip down through Kerry along narrow twisty coast roads and it was fantastic.
The steering feels very precise and the diesel lump has plenty to throw you from corner to corner.

The one constant feeling though is that there's something missing. It doesn't have the smile factor caused by the noise of a high revving petrol engine which dulls the experience.
The gearbox also feels very laboured and clunky at low speeds.

You're welcome to give it a try if you're ever in the vacinity

Thanks Enda, it's great to hear an owner's perspective and you mentioned all the important stuff. It seems it's exactly what I thought, probably the most fun diesel out there but as you say without the sound/high revving smile factor. It's nice to know it's enjoyable when the going gets twisty though.

I may take you up on that offer if I find myself in your neck of the woods :)

I love mine... Fiesta Zetec S Diesel, Solid 58MPG.

I actually prefer driving it to the E36..... Only thing I miss is the noise and not having to rev it like a petrol.



What about an STD?



A Focus ST Diesel. :)

One of the guys in work has a 161 ST3 D, all show and no go, awful slow lump if you ask me. Surprisingly heavy car too, circa 1500kg.

Depending how much you're willing to spend, a twin turbo diesel with the eight speed is the way to go for fast diesels.

I've resigned to go for a moderately powerful diesel, want 50MPG, (F10 or F01) and as funds allow get a proper petrol, something encased around an LS3 if I can manage it!

Welcome back Peter. Our 120d is actually a great fun little car, can really chuck it around if you want. Quicker than 90% of other things on the road too I'd say

The answer is no, and exciting diesel does not exist. I have had a 420d....great MPG, plenty speed plenty fast but not exciting at all. 640d, plenty fast, pretty poor MPG (real world 26 mpg as opposed to the claimed 50 ish). The speed was there but again the excitement was not.

The thing is excitement is not a function of the speed, its sound, responsiveness, urgency, gearing, ability to rev high, and the setup of the steering and suspension. You cannot tune an engine for economy but still maintain the cars will to take off suddenly. Gearing is a major player also. My 640d had 8 gears and just seemed to want to get you into gear 7 or 8 as fast as possible, each gear only lasted a second at WOT. I had a 911 that could go from 0-120kph in second gear....not that was fun and loud.

Honestly electric cars are the closest to exciting economy there is...I have not driven one (hybrids yes) but a number of reviewers are not impressed with acceleration and are left cold by them.

You could be dead tomorrow, get the car you want and enjoy life. 700 mile of boredom from a tank is depressing. No point in one crap car and one good one...you will always take the good one.

Diesel focus wouldn't be my cup of tea to be honest. Was thinking an LCI e92 320d with some toys but I can't bring myself to part with money for one when for the same money you could have a cracking 335i.

@Don 1 series coupé, particularly a 123d definitely seems like a more attractive proposition than a 320d/520d with Twin turbos/more power and a smaller, lighter body. I think it would be more fun in the corners too. It's probably on top of the list as far as diesels go.

@Moe I couldn't agree with you more, Moe. It's definitely not all about speed, steering and suspension make such a massive difference and I'm always banging on about gearing, it's definitely something that could make or break a car for me. I drove an e46 330ci a couple of years ago and couldn't get over the long gears, for a while I figured I could get one and fit an LSD with a different ratio and maybe an exhaust etc and then just thought it's not worth the hassle... Funny enough on the opposite end of the spectrum I thought the gearing in a little 116i was excellent, it's the lasting memory I have of driving it. It certainly wasn't quick but it was FUN, I liked the steering and suspension setup on it too, it was a genuinely entertaining car. I love the 4 series and I love the 6 series but I don't aspire to own a 420d or 640d.. And yes the 2 car approach can seem logical on paper but in reality you're never in the right car at the right time and as you say you don't ever want to drive the boring one but you still pay for it so what's the point?

I think I need to test drive a few cars and make a decision on whether to buy something like a 123d or possibly keep the eco box I'm using at the moment and save some money, take my time and eventually get something nice again.

Had a 430d sport for a week or so. One of the best all rounders I've drove in a long time. Had the grunt and could match that in the twisties.

I'm a picky fussy €unt when it comes to cars and must say it would be one of very few cars that would make me get out of my E46.


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Welcome back Peter!

The only exciting diesels I know of are the Mercedes OM605/606 superturbodiesels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKazym6zTGg
A bit impractical for everyday though :)

If doing the guts if 70k kms/year, it's pretty much impossible for man maths to work out and justify a petrol in Ireland, however another consideration is that spending big money buying a car and putting that sort of mileage on it will decimate the value. There is lots of value in big engined pre-08 diesels at the moment and you're doing enough mileage that tax won't really feature as a big cost! I'd say buy a 530d/730d/A8 and enjoy the waft. If you're OK with the refinement of a 4cyl petrol, you'll struggle to justify anything else but I couldn't get on with them!

As I was doing about 2k/month, I went from 335i -> GS450h -> CLK270CDI and while I loved the economy of the GS & the CLK, I'm happy to be back in a large petrol (530i) which does 35+MPG at motorway speeds which is good enough.

Have you considered 2 cars? Boring econobox for daily mileage and something nice for the weekend?

Welcome back Peter

Mk7 GTD golf would be a option also Great Driving car

Why not but the car you really want and fit an lpg system best of both worlds

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Originally Posted by Peter-E36

… but with the mileage I’ll be doing not even a Dergside man-maths calculator can justify it :D

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Give me a chance before you admit defeat on my behalf..... :)

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Originally Posted by HealyC

Had a 430d sport for a week or so. One of the best all rounders I've drove in a long time. Had the grunt and could match that in the twisties.

I'm a picky fussy €unt when it comes to cars and must say it would be one of very few cars that would make me get out of my E46.


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Saw one today in town - it was a Silverstone Blue 430d Gran Coupe.. lovely looking car!

2 diesels have really impressed me in the last year.
The first is the Mrs 330d (both of them she had). It goes like stink, handles very well and (allegedly) can happily cruise at 160kph in the rain if you're running late for a baptism in Galway [emoji6]. It's faster than the e46 m3 in the real world. It might not snarl on start up or bang and pop on the over run but I'd happily drive one as a daily, esp if I was doing the miles.

At the other end of the engine scale was a 116d I had as a loaner from M&G. It was small, light and chuckable. Again I'd consider one as a daily but more so for around town driving.

Thanks for all the welcome and input folks :)

I have to say I haven't driven an F30/F32 30d and I am a bit curious, but I've actually completely forgotten about LPG. I wonder why it hasn't really taken off if it's any good. Has anyone got any experience with it?

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Originally Posted by Peter-E36

Thanks for all the welcome and input folks :)

I have to say I haven't driven an F30/F32 30d and I am a bit curious, but I've actually completely forgotten about LPG. I wonder why it hasn't really taken off if it's any good. Has anyone got any experience with it?

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Loads of reasons why and no matter what people will tell you the fact is it ruins cars. They never run right (the exact same as petrol) on gas and always looks like a botch job under the bonnet.

And my argument is why haven't manufactures started doing lpg cars like hybrids. Anyway, I'd doubt its possible on the newer bmw petrols from 2008 onwards with the direct injection engines.


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I was about to buy a Porsche Cayenne with the 4.8 litre engine and I was planning on doing an LPG conversion. I worked out that it would have taken me 3 years to recoup the cost of the kit alone (€2,500 + VAT for a V8), so wasn't at all worth it for me. Given you're doing mega mileage it might be a different scenario for you, but bear in mind stations where you can buy LPG are few and far between.

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Originally Posted by HealyC

Loads of reasons why and no matter what people will tell you the fact is it ruins cars. They never run right (the exact same as petrol) on gas and always looks like a botch job under the bonnet.

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I can't disagree with this more. I had a Ford Falcon on gas in Australia with 320k on the clock and still ran like a swiss watch. In fact, it was smoother on gas than it was on petrol. Lots and lots of cars in Oz with little to no issues as they know how to install LPG, all of the horror stories here/UK concern cars that were converted badly. Just like any mod/maintenance, if it's done badly it won't end well.

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Originally Posted by Moe

excitement is not a function of the speed, its sound, responsiveness, urgency, gearing, ability to rev high, and the setup of the steering and suspension.

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+100
this is why I keep got the CooperS alongside the 320D