M2 VS M2 Competition VS M3(e46) VS M4 Review

Sunday morning was a good morning as far as mornings go!

Moe had generously offered for me to go for extended drives in his M3 and M4 after my time in the M2 Competition for comparison. Leigh, Seamus and Attilio ended up joining us for the spin which made for an excellent ///M convoy.

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I called over to Moe's house at the crack of dawn, hopped into the e46 M3, he got into the M4 and we went to meet the others and carve our way through some tasty roads.

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The M3 is in great condition and is a credit to both Moe and Chillipepper. There was a real sense of drama with it being SMG, and having to nurse it up to temperature before you can give it the beans, and when it's warm and you do push on, the induction noise sounded fantastic - I was fully convinced it had an aftermarket air box (it doesn't), the engine had that lovely signature S54 metallic sound, and the exhaust sounded so good I was again convinced it was aftermarket (it wasn't).

I got to know the M3 a bit better as we made our way up the Wicklow mountains, it's an immensely fun car to drive, surprisingly tame, the back end remains compliant (seemed strange as the last S54 powered car I drove was Attilio's Z4M and it was very tail happy indeed!) the power delivery is very linear, and it's definitely a car you have to/can wind up to the red line and use every drop of performance on the road, Moe had advised to keep the gearbox shift ferocity in the max setting which was... ferocious... however when dialled back to the lowest setting I found it to be much smoother and more enjoyable. I get that they were trying to add a bit of drama to the shifts but honestly (and this is probably personal preference) I'm perfectly happy having no jerk at all, in fact if it was F1 smooth with absolutely no gaps between shifts that'd be just fine! Apart from that, I expected the SMG to be dimwitted and slow, and while it's no DCT, it's certainly no slouch either and it adds a layer of fun to the driving experience especially on twisty back roads. The upshifts are reasonably quick and the downshifts when timed right (think braking before corner entry) are very satisfying. Overall a great gearbox for spirited driving, although as I didn't do any real start/stop traffic or slow driving where you don't just downshift in braking zones, it's hard to say what it would be like say driving to work and back. The M3 suspension is FIRM, Moe mentioned it was set up for track use but we never got into the exact differences over the standard setup. When I got into it first I thought it was going to be a bit nervous or skittish when the road surface gets bumpy, but it wasn't the case and the rear was nicely planted. The steering was lovely, lighter than I'd expected but plenty communicative.

Conclusion: The M3 is great because you can use all the power all the time, it has a lovely analog feel to it, and the SMG adds a sense of occasion. It's a progressive, tame car to drive, it rewards you rather than threatens to kill you and as such it's a car you could confidently drive at the limit without electronic nannies.

When we got to the half way point, we pulled in for coffee and a chat. It was at this point that I hopped into the M4.

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The M4 evolved into such a different car from the M3, it's not just a different generation, it has a completely different character, much closer to the M2 competition but more on that later. Everything is naturally more digital than analogue with the likes of the Head Up Display, iDrive and the myriad of driver settings for everything. The first thing you notice driving off though is how much bigger and wider it is, the M4 feels huge in comparison. Within a few miles and some flicking through the Engine, Suspension, Gearbox, and Steering settings you will find a set up that's right for you, although with the amount of options available you're always wondering if there's a better set up you could be in every time the conditions change (road surface etc).

In terms of driving, this car is a monster, especially with the "software updates" this car had ;-) it's loud, it pops like no one's business, the turbo sounds are addictive and while I'm not a fan of how the M4s' exhaust sound stock, this one is just right! The differences in character between this and the e46 M3 though is that you don't wind this car up, you don't need to go near the red line, there's an abundance of power everywhere, it is literally an unnatural (TURBOS) amount of power and as such it is very much recommended to keep the electronic nannies on, especially on the road, to keep it in check. You can still have plenty of fun but you won't bin it. Where the M3 is planted, the M4 is easily provoked and you can adjust it's placement on the road with your right foot. This is a very different experience from the e46.

The DCT is as you'd expect, super quick both ways but in order to have the satisfying downshifts you need to have it set to it's max gearbox ferocity setting which adds fake jerks to the up shifts when you're "on it". This can be remedied by putting it in the lowest setting but then the downshifts aren't as immediate. Not the biggest deal, but would like it if there was a way to have the smooth up shifts with the immediate downshifts.

The M4 is the most premium in terms of options / options available and it has adaptive suspension which no M2 can be equipped with (which leaves you with an upsetting blank button in your brand new M2 Competition no matter how much you spend).

Conclusion: The M4 is great because of the incredible amount of power on tap, enough to be able to rotate it on the road with your right foot, as well as the modern tech. The simply unnatural amount of power this car produces means DSC is best left on unless you're on a track.

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M2 Competition driven on the same roads:The M2 Competition feels like it combines the best of both the e46 M3 and the M4, it's similar in size to the M3 (although it does feel quite wide), with the detuned (if you could really call it that with 410bhp) S55 you can still exploit most of the power and wind it up a bit, and yet it feels every bit as fast as the M4. What makes The M2 Competition special though is that it feels alive! It does the same thing the M4 does where it rotates and adjusts itself on the road with the throttle but it does it more eagerly and it feels a lot sharper with the shorter wheelbase, It's exciting in a way the M3 could never be. I guess that's what 550NM torque does! The whole car also just feels more "together" and compact than the M4. One annoying thing as mentioned above is the blank button that would normally be for adaptive suspension in the M4 but will always be a blank on the M2 as it's not an option - they really couldn't spend 5 extra euro on R&D and remove the extra blank button? The funny thing is though, while in the M4 you do have adaptive suspension, the M2 Competition suspension is so well sorted it just doesn't need it, it was so stable over the bumpy straight in the sally gap, it glides through corners and it just generally inspires confidence.

With the M2 competition having some extra toys available and clever new tech such as the adaptive laser lights that turn night into day when driving on a dark backroad, and disperses the light around oncoming traffic or cars in front to not blind them, the proper ///M seats, mirrors, etc they took what they set out to accomplish with the original M2, dialled it up to 11 by adding full ///M garnish, and bridging the gap in terms of quality / premium feel between the original M2 and the M4. It is the best driver's car - at least for what I look for in a car - without sacrificing any day to day practicality.

Finally there's styling, entirely subjective ofcourse, but there's no getting around the fact the M2 has the most bulging arches of any ///M car, and with the additional styling cues over the original M2 it just looks so aggressive (such as the slots sticking out of the bumper and even the low hanging back box everyone seems to hate, it looks like a pitbull complete with its' danglies :D)

Conclusion: The M2 Competition is great because it's the perfect all rounder. It takes the best attributes of past and present ///M cars and puts them into one neatly polished package.

M2 Competition interior:

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Them danglies :D

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Anybody else see the resemblance?

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They both have that stubby, muscular, compact look :D

I waffled on so much I hit the character limit :D

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The "original" M2: So not having driven the original M2 was "driving" me mad... I needed to know the difference between an M2 and an M2 Competition... Surely it couldn't be that big a difference, right? Wrong...

I was in Joe Duffy last week crunching some numbers on a Competition when they mentioned they had a 171 M2 in stock, excited to hear that I went upstairs to view it, and apart from the less obvious visual differences I first noticed the "standard" mirrors, then opening the doors I found the lacklustre standard seats, and up front there was the original headlight design rather than the razor sharp laser lights, but it looked good in the way M2s do, so I arranged a test drive for Tuesday, having driven the M3 and M4 in the meantime, Tuesday rolled on and in I hopped into the M2 that was gleaming outside in the sun in its' sapphire black paintwork waiting for me and I quickly realised there was no engine mode button, so I couldn't put that in Sport Plus like I planned to, the steering had no settings either and neither did the gearbox... all there was was the comfort/sport toggle next to the gear lever which adjusts everything together... I immediately felt more restricted. As I pulled away I noticed the difference in sound with the N55 - no problems here, the N55 sounds fantastic. As I gradually start to throw it into the bends and around roundabouts there was no complaints about the suspension or steering. It's when I buried the throttle that I was shocked to see just how much of a difference there was, I'm not going to call it slow, that would be ridiculous, but it doesn't have that "holy shit" factor the competition has, it doesn't brake traction anywhere near the same way, even provoked in bends it didn't wiggle the way the competition does, there's none of that "alive" feeling the competition has, none of that wonderfully excessive amount of torque, no sense of danger and none of that excitement... It felt like a beefed up 335i power-wise which is exactly what it is I suppose since the N55 is straight out of the LCI e92 335i with some tweaks. It's funny, while every car journalist raved about the M2, everybody I met who drove one told me they were underwhelmed which almost used to upset me, to me the M2 was - at least on paper - it! The perfect car! When we were speaking about this on Sunday Moe told me how he remembered grabbing the steering wheel and "pushing it to go faster"... I couldn't imagine that at the time but that's exactly what it was like. In contrast, in the M2 Competition, you hold on for dear life :D your eyes are on the road, you can't spare milliseconds to look at the speedo... and THIS is the difference between the two. This puts the original M2 with the e46 M3 character-wise, it's a car you can take liberties with, you can wind it up and use every last horsepower but it just lacks that magic the Competition has ...that has completely ruined my life :D and makes me want an M2 competition more than any other car I've ever driven or been in.

Conclusion: The original M2 is great because it is absolutely the spiritual successor of the e46 M3, it's the same size, has the same character, you derive the same kind of driving enjoyment out of it and you can be confident flicking off DSC and ringing its' neck!

With all of the above in mind, the e46 M3 is probably the best value for money ///M car or sports car out there at the moment (although I still need to get behind the wheel of an e92 M3 - I'm working on that) it was so much fun, as is, SMG and all. It's where the smart money is and it's definitely the thinking petrol head's M car. I think if we were at the foot of the Wicklow mountains right now about to do it all over again, I'd probably ask Moe (very nicely :D) for the key to the e46 for the entire spin this time. I'd absolutely love one, but I'd need an M2 competition too...

Moe, you're dead right to have both the M3 and M4, they are 2 different kinds of fun and really complete each other!

It’ll be a very different thing again, but if the analog nature of the M3 appealed then you really need to try a nice e36 M3 before you make any decisions.

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Originally Posted by dergside

It’ll be a very different thing again, but if the analog nature of the M3 appealed then you really need to try a nice e36 M3 before you make any decisions.

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I would certainly love an extended drive in one on proper roads to really get to know it. It’s just the way prices are going it doesn’t seem like good value, owners have scared me about reliability issues, and since the e46 has plenty of that analog feel with more power on tap it just seems like the better option for someone in the market.

I understand what you mean. At this point an e36 almost certainly wouldn't be a daily driver, but having had both e36 and e46 alongside one another, several times, (admittedly, not M's but 325i/328i alongside 330Ci and 330Ci Sport), I'd see the e36's as being even more "involving". Whenever I've had to choose which one to keep, the e36 won every time. The limits are definitely lower, given that the e36 design is almost 30 years old. I suppose it depends of personal priorities when you balance all the aspects of performance, driving pleasure and costs/practicality.

The size of the backbox on the m2 is like a full nappy hanging down,,,why? Otherwise a solid looking car. You need to drive the e92 then you will have the full picture. I would be most interested in you opinions on that. Due to an unexpected house renovation project I might be persuaded to part with the e46 m3 for the right buyer.

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Originally Posted by Moe

The size of the backbox on the m2 is like a full nappy hanging down,,,why?

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I daresay that BMW or one of the other tuners have something in the line of a Carbon Fibre diffuser to fill that gap, at a price.....

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Originally Posted by Moe

The size of the backbox on the m2 is like a full nappy hanging down,,,why?

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The backbox may be part of the cars aerodynamics as per the Z1's backbox....:)

I wouldn't agree on being able to use all of the power at all times though - I mean 343bhp is still a pretty respectable figure by today's standards and you would have to be ragging the car all of the time to get the max out of it.

As for a daily, I find the SMG fine in slow moving traffic - once you get used to the characteristics. Parallel parking on a hill is about the worst aspect of SMG.

An interesting read and a great write up Peter...you should be on the staff of EVO magazine!! Fair play to Moe also for letting you experience his fantastic fleet.

The biggest observation that I made is that you seem to prefer all of the gadgets and different driver settings on the M2 Competition over the M2. I am completely the opposite. All I want is a six cylinder engine, RWD and a manual gearbox (OK maybe traction control).

I would argue that the 1M is the spiritual successor of the E30 M3 and E46 M3 and not the M2.

It really sounds like you need to buy an M2 Competition though. Have you spoken to the bank manager yet :D

Its a great write-up peter. I have never driven the M2 comp but you see now why I would not have bought the vanilla M2. I drove one and it just was not M car enough. BMW seem to have agreed, and basically but a m4 into the m2 body for the comp. As I said the M2 comp may be the best of both worlds, however the lack of HUD, the poor choice of colours exterior and interior (for my gaudy tastes), and lack of adaptive suspension is a shame. On a long motorway trip where you dont want to "drive" its nice to have a soft setting. And on those roads a hard "sports plus" is nice for control and to limit rebound over bumps and keep the traction. I have some styling issues with the m2, and the packaging is a bit dinky to be my primary motor.

We were all really pushing on those roads, and all the cars were well able to keep up. The e46 is rewarding because it takes effort (my hands were very sweaty trying to keep with the pack in the e46). The M4 (and I assume the M2 comp) are effortlessly fast and corner and brake so well. I found the f10 M5 the hardest to get to speed because the mass feels like its inertia will make you crash.

Dont every underestimate tyres on all these. The m2 comp is on PS4;s, all the m4 were on PSS, the e46 was on Khumo Ecsta. Tyres are IMHO the biggest difference in the handling of a car. The e46 on Cup2's is (on a hot day) unstickable. A m4 on PS4's would be different too (the M$ cs is on them)., I do feel that BMW with all their editions are basically messing with software and tyres at this point.
The reason they make so many models is because we all have different tastes, but for me looking at my cars, the only that has the price to performance win by miles is the e46 m3. Only problem is they are getting too rare (ones in good nick anyway) and collectable to drive as they should be driven. I think the e92 m3 is also a mighty car, except that it was made at the same time as BMW were making very unreliable cars, they are a bargain at the moment too.

Life is too short to drive crappy cars. Peter is a gentleman and totally trustworthy, although I did sweat a bit when you were in the lead in the M4 and caining it.

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Originally Posted by Moe

The size of the backbox on the m2 is like a full nappy hanging down,,,why? Otherwise a solid looking car. You need to drive the e92 then you will have the full picture. I would be most interested in you opinions on that. Due to an unexpected house renovation project I might be persuaded to part with the e46 m3 for the right buyer.

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Now now moe I have dibs!!!

Sent from my TRT-LX1 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Moe

The size of the backbox on the m2 is like a full nappy hanging down,,,why? Otherwise a solid looking car. You need to drive the e92 then you will have the full picture. I would be most interested in you opinions on that. Due to an unexpected house renovation project I might be persuaded to part with the e46 m3 for the right buyer.

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Originally Posted by dergside

I daresay that BMW or one of the other tuners have something in the line of a Carbon Fibre diffuser to fill that gap, at a price.....

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Originally Posted by Big H

The backbox may be part of the cars aerodynamics as per the Z1's backbox....:)

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Something to do with new emissions regulations apparently, easily sorted aftermarket but strangely, I like it.

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Originally Posted by 318 iS Cosmos

I wouldn't agree on being able to use all of the power at all times though - I mean 343bhp is still a pretty respectable figure by today's standards and you would have to be ragging the car all of the time to get the max out of it.

As for a daily, I find the SMG fine in slow moving traffic - once you get used to the characteristics. Parallel parking on a hill is about the worst aspect of SMG.

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No arguments there, 343bhp is plenty! I think the e46 M3 chassis is so sorted that it just handles the power really well. By contrast, the Z4M with the exact same engine is ...frantic! It bites, a different kind of excitement again :D but that's why I was so surprised by how much more progressive and easy to handle the e46 M3 was at the limit.

Also agree, you don't deploy all 343bhp on the morning commute, but on a mountain road - deploy them I did :) Moe told me I had to rag it and I didn't want to disappoint him :D

Good to hear the SMG is ok in slow moving traffic. I think I'm leaning towards SMG if I was to buy an e46 M3.

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Originally Posted by Bayerische

An interesting read and a great write up Peter...you should be on the staff of EVO magazine!! Fair play to Moe also for letting you experience his fantastic fleet.

The biggest observation that I made is that you seem to prefer all of the gadgets and different driver settings on the M2 Competition over the M2. I am completely the opposite. All I want is a six cylinder engine, RWD and a manual gearbox (OK maybe traction control).

I would argue that the 1M is the spiritual successor of the E30 M3 and E46 M3 and not the M2.

It really sounds like you need to buy an M2 Competition though. Have you spoken to the bank manager yet :D

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Thanks Nick, you're very kind! I would only love to...

Yes, Moe was brave to let me have a go :D

I really do like the extra toys over the M2, I think the driver settings are great as well. I had the engine in sport plus pootling around the city for example with comfort everything else just for the POP POP POP out the back. I was always more of an "analog" kind of guy before but I'm really coming around to the extra tech in cars, it just adds to the experience for me. I 100% understand where you're coming from though as it's always been my view up until now. In fact I used to say (LARGE) front engined, RWD, manual, with electric windows and ABS... and nothing else. Now I really enjoy the toys and paddle-shift boxes, maybe it's a phase :D

I'd say you're probably right re: 1M, it's just frustrating that they made what seems like a fantastic car and then limited production for absolutely no reason. I think I've only ever seen one in the flesh - a Valencia orange example I used to see regularly around Auckland, NZ. I know there's a black one floating around Dublin as well. Maybe a part of me is dismissing it for that reason.

Oh... and the bank manager must never know... :D

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Originally Posted by Moe

Its a great write-up peter. I have never driven the M2 comp but you see now why I would not have bought the vanilla M2. I drove one and it just was not M car enough. BMW seem to have agreed, and basically but a m4 into the m2 body for the comp. As I said the M2 comp may be the best of both worlds, however the lack of HUD, the poor choice of colours exterior and interior (for my gaudy tastes), and lack of adaptive suspension is a shame. On a long motorway trip where you dont want to "drive" its nice to have a soft setting. And on those roads a hard "sports plus" is nice for control and to limit rebound over bumps and keep the traction. I have some styling issues with the m2, and the packaging is a bit dinky to be my primary motor.

We were all really pushing on those roads, and all the cars were well able to keep up. The e46 is rewarding because it takes effort (my hands were very sweaty trying to keep with the pack in the e46). The M4 (and I assume the M2 comp) are effortlessly fast and corner and brake so well. I found the f10 M5 the hardest to get to speed because the mass feels like its inertia will make you crash.

Dont every underestimate tyres on all these. The m2 comp is on PS4;s, all the m4 were on PSS, the e46 was on Khumo Ecsta. Tyres are IMHO the biggest difference in the handling of a car. The e46 on Cup2's is (on a hot day) unstickable. A m4 on PS4's would be different too (the M$ cs is on them)., I do feel that BMW with all their editions are basically messing with software and tyres at this point.
The reason they make so many models is because we all have different tastes, but for me looking at my cars, the only that has the price to performance win by miles is the e46 m3. Only problem is they are getting too rare (ones in good nick anyway) and collectable to drive as they should be driven. I think the e92 m3 is also a mighty car, except that it was made at the same time as BMW were making very unreliable cars, they are a bargain at the moment too.

Life is too short to drive crappy cars. Peter is a gentleman and totally trustworthy, although I did sweat a bit when you were in the lead in the M4 and caining it.

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Cheers Moe, much appreciated!

Agree re: tyres, pretty sure the BMW First M2 Comp was on MPSS and while they were great on a dry sunny afternoon - on wet, cold, grimey roads there was no grip to speak of. The car was spinning up every time I went anywhere near the throttle... I was going nowhere fast but god, it was fun! and it never got old :D

I really need to get into an e92 asap!

Thanks again Moe, really appreciate the extended drives and really helpful to compare the cars. I suppose it wouldn't be a proper test if I didn't make you sweat a little... :p

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Originally Posted by Peter-E36

Cheers Moe, much appreciated!

Agree re: tyres, pretty sure the BMW First M2 Comp was on MPSS and while they were great on a dry sunny afternoon - on wet, cold, grimey roads there was no grip to speak of. The car was spinning up every time I went anywhere near the throttle... I was going nowhere fast but god, it was fun! and it never got old :D

I really need to get into an e92 asap!

Thanks again Moe, really appreciate the extended drives and really helpful to compare the cars. I suppose it wouldn't be a proper test if I didn't make you sweat a little... :p

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Funny you should say that about the PSS, I had them on the M5 and they were amazing, they do fall off a cliff before the tread is gone though, I used to push that car in the wet confident in the tires.

You should definitely take an E92 for a spin, the engine dominates the experience in the E92, make sure you drive a DCT too.
I can't remember where I read it but it was summed up perfectly in that the S65 is an engine Ferrari would be proud of.

Do you really think the M2 is worth dropping 100k on?

Also, give biking a go, everyone should try biking once!

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Originally Posted by Peter-E36

Something to do with new emissions regulations apparently, easily sorted aftermarket but strangely, I like it.



No arguments there, 343bhp is plenty! I think the e46 M3 chassis is so sorted that it just handles the power really well. By contrast, the Z4M with the exact same engine is ...frantic! It bites, a different kind of excitement again :D but that's why I was so surprised by how much more progressive and easy to handle the e46 M3 was at the limit.

Also agree, you don't deploy all 343bhp on the morning commute, but on a mountain road - deploy them I did :) Moe told me I had to rag it and I didn't want to disappoint him :D

Good to hear the SMG is ok in slow moving traffic. I think I'm leaning towards SMG if I was to buy an e46 M3.

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I know of a very nice one coming up for sale very soon ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cracking write up Peter- really enjoyed that! Also, good on you Moe- that’s taking club spirit to a new level!! That’s pretty much a bucket list Sunday morning for me!

Great write up Peter.
I really enjoyed that read. It was more informative, engaging, and a better put together piece than 99.9% of the journos writing for the glossy mags...

You might have found a new calling...

Also, Fair play Moe, for handing over the keys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really, really want to drive a M2 Comp now, not that I would be buying one in the near future :D

I got to drive a colleagues M4 convertible this time last year and remember being completely underwhelmed by the whole experience.

Couple of people have said that to me about the m4 convertible...I dont know how it could be underwhelming, the engine is an atomic bomb of a thing but it seems to be consistent across a few people.

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Originally Posted by Dave

Funny you should say that about the PSS, I had them on the M5 and they were amazing, they do fall off a cliff before the tread is gone though, I used to push that car in the wet confident in the tires.

You should definitely take an E92 for a spin, the engine dominates the experience in the E92, make sure you drive a DCT too.
I can't remember where I read it but it was summed up perfectly in that the S65 is an engine Ferrari would be proud of.

Do you really think the M2 is worth dropping 100k on?

Also, give biking a go, everyone should try biking once!

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You'll see what I mean about the tyres on Friday ;)

I love the positive community feel that forums have, have just been offered a spin in an e93 M3 for comparison on Backroads so let's see how that goes :)

M2 Competition worth 100k? Nope... It's unjustifiable whatever way you crunch the numbers, especially with how much of it being VRT :( ...It's worth every penny of 50k sterling in the UK though. If I manage a move to the UK with work, I will be a very happy man. Especially if I managed to be somewhere between North Wales and South of Scotland... The most perfect roads, "cheap" cars, cheap tax, cheaper houses and it's not exactly far... Fingers crossed...

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Originally Posted by nige

Cracking write up Peter- really enjoyed that! Also, good on you Moe- that’s taking club spirit to a new level!! That’s pretty much a bucket list Sunday morning for me!

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Cheers Nige! Glad you did, hope your neck is better since our spin :D

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Originally Posted by Mmolloy01

Great write up Peter.
I really enjoyed that read. It was more informative, engaging, and a better put together piece than 99.9% of the journos writing for the glossy mags...

You might have found a new calling...

Also, Fair play Moe, for handing over the keys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Thanks a million Maurice, that's very kind indeed! There's nothing I enjoy more than meeting fellow petrol heads and going for drives around some nice roads in some fun cars... I like to share the experience when i can :)

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Originally Posted by 318 iS Cosmos

I really, really want to drive a M2 Comp now, not that I would be buying one in the near future :D

I got to drive a colleagues M4 convertible this time last year and remember being completely underwhelmed by the whole experience.

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It's always good to know for when the time comes to make the purchase :)

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Originally Posted by Moe

Couple of people have said that to me about the m4 convertible...I dont know how it could be underwhelming, the engine is an atomic bomb of a thing but it seems to be consistent across a few people.

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Sorry Moe, only seeing this now! Truth be told, I only had the car for about an hour and wasn't exactly spanking it on some of the roads in Dublin.
However, it seemed to lack that 'fizz' and also there was definitely a delay in getting on the power at low revs.

Maybe there was something wrong with this particular car, but it only had about 4k miles... I distinctly remember this as I brought my own M into work that day and I jumped into it afterwards - it definitely felt more special, the metallic rasp at start-up and the instant throttle response.

About 4 weeks after this, I got a chance to drive another colleagues E92 M3. I went in with low expectations but was instantly blown away with how it drove and sounded. After driving it, I remember cursing the owner (jokingly of course :D) as I could finally see a worthy successor to my own car. I didn't get that with the M4 convertible. In the end, head overruled the heart and I stopped looking and sold the M.

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Originally Posted by 318 iS Cosmos

Sorry Moe, only seeing this now! Truth be told, I only had the car for about an hour and wasn't exactly spanking it on some of the roads in Dublin.
However, it seemed to lack that 'fizz' and also there was definitely a delay in getting on the power at low revs.

Maybe there was something wrong with this particular car, but it only had about 4k miles... I distinctly remember this as I brought my own M into work that day and I jumped into it afterwards - it definitely felt more special, the metallic rasp at start-up and the instant throttle response.

About 4 weeks after this, I got a chance to drive another colleagues E92 M3. I went in with low expectations but was instantly blown away with how it drove and sounded. After driving it, I remember cursing the owner (jokingly of course :D) as I could finally see a worthy successor to my own car. I didn't get that with the M4 convertible. In the end, head overruled the heart and I stopped looking and sold the M.

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I missed Moe's post too. I wonder if people in general are referring to the car being a bit softer as a convertible rather than lacking power?

Have a feeling the E92 will be a very special car to drive!

I think the e92 is a great engine, makes a great sound and in DCT form is a good all rounder. The F8x cars are much faster, and by no small margin thanks to the torque, the F8x feel lighter too. I think that the e92 is quite far from the e46 and the e92 is closer to the f10 m5 IMHO. ALl great cars but it depends on what sort of performance driver you are, if you like using all your revs the e92 and e46 are only man, if you like muscle cars the s55 cars are your poison. Talk to Seamus the chap with the M5 on whats app Peter he has a e93 for 2 years and went through all the ups and downs of ownership. I got to drive it a lot, and thought it was a very fine car indeed.

E93 M3 is 200kg heavier than the coupe. Making it almost as heavy as an E39 M5.

E92 M3 is 100ms slower to 100kph that an M4 and half a second slower down the quarter mile, so the M4 is not exactly a lot faster.

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Originally Posted by Dave

E93 M3 is 200kg heavier than the coupe. Making it almost as heavy as an E39 M5.

E92 M3 is 100ms slower to 100kph that an M4 and half a second slower down the quarter mile, so the M4 is not exactly a lot faster.

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Weight difference is what’s worrying me but only one way to find out what they’re like!

There’s 0.1 or 0.2 sec of a difference between the M2 and M2 competition 0-100 km/h on paper too but the in-gear acceleration is something else! I stopped looking at these numbers... or any performance numbers to be honest. Nothing like a butt dyno :)

Dave I think every reviewer agrees that the m4 feels a lot faster than the e92. I certainly found this. The fact the m4 comes underrated as standard helps, but I know the stats are close enough and was careful to proviso my post as a "feeling". But I think the average driver on the average road in average conditions will be a lot faster in a s55 engined car. I certainly am, because firstly I dont have to be revving the nuts off it all the time, and second I am a crap driver.

You cant stick 100bhp and 100 torque on the e92 with a stage one tune, and the 0-100kph are a little more than 0.1s different, I had a couple of runs against a manual e92 at the runway club event last year and totally monstered it, not even close (e60 m5 on the other hand got away above 200kph)....every generation of m3 has been a big improvement on the previous albeit that some aspect of the previous cars beloved character was lost in the new one.

Cars now have become so fast, powerful and so technical that its really only how they feels that differentiates them. One of the problems I have with fast Audi's (and possibly the new m5) it that is doesn't feel like anything at all. I am a bit nervous about the 2020 m4, as the m3/4 is becoming more like a m5, and the m2 has been introduced as a "sportier" car

Ah guys I did not know this thread was here. Have to say what a day that was and Moe thanks for the last minute invite and what a lovely group of true car people.
Some really beautiful cars and still to this day I have such a soft spot for the e46 M3 its pure drivers car I love them.
Cant wait for the next spin up the Gap count me in anytime.

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Originally Posted by Moe

Dave I think every reviewer agrees that the m4 feels a lot faster than the e92. I certainly found this. The fact the m4 comes underrated as standard helps, but I know the stats are close enough and was careful to proviso my post as a "feeling". But I think the average driver on the average road in average conditions will be a lot faster in a s55 engined car. I certainly am, because firstly I dont have to be revving the nuts off it all the time, and second I am a crap driver.

You cant stick 100bhp and 100 torque on the e92 with a stage one tune, and the 0-100kph are a little more than 0.1s different, I had a couple of runs against a manual e92 at the runway club event last year and totally monstered it, not even close (e60 m5 on the other hand got away above 200kph)....every generation of m3 has been a big improvement on the previous albeit that some aspect of the previous cars beloved character was lost in the new one.

Cars now have become so fast, powerful and so technical that its really only how they feels that differentiates them. One of the problems I have with fast Audi's (and possibly the new m5) it that is doesn't feel like anything at all. I am a bit nervous about the 2020 m4, as the m3/4 is becoming more like a m5, and the m2 has been introduced as a "sportier" car

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The seduction of torque :D
Generate a lot of torque at low RPM and everything feels effortless and easy, but that's more the nature of the torque, the power is easily accessible, there's no huge noise and the torque is consistent as the revs rise. Compare this with the naturally aspirated V8 and the fanfare of it revving it's head off as you approach peak torque, but you absolutely need to work it.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the difference in pace, in stock form there was 13 seconds difference between the E92 M3 vs the M4 around the Nurburgring, the DCT E92 M3 is veraciously quick from a standstill and you have the closer stacked rations of the DCT box.
Everyone talks about the lower torque of the S65 being an issue, the E39 has nearly 100 lb/ft more torque than the E92 and it wasn't evident at all.

I'm not in any way bashing the M4, I think it's an awesome car, I see Marks one quite regularly and always find myself geeking out over the details, they are gorgeous.

However, I don't believe BMW went to the S55 because it was a better engine, it was all about economy and making the car more efficient which you simply couldn't do with the existing V8.
The end result is a car that is a objectively, vastly superior all rounder to its predecessor.

As you say, it's all about what you want, I've always loved NA engines, you need to dial into them over time to get the most out of them, it's a process that I love, I guess it has a lot to do with riding bikes as you can balance a bike and alter it's lean angle with the throttle, I just find it much more rewarding than boosted engines, but there's no arguing with the effectiveness of the S55.

Well Dave sound like you need a spin in my m4. We shall arrange. I found the performance difference to be quite profound.

Having owned an e92 M3 and now an M4 the M4 completely destroys the E92 in relation to outright pace there is no comparison at all.
Once you start tuning then all bets are off the twin turbos in the M4 completely monster the older car and what can be achieved.
Simply using Bootm0d can put the M4 well over 500 bhp for less than €500 however I do agree the noise of the V8 is so much better and I miss that.

I still prefer the sound of the v8, at the VAGE show yesterday we had a few forum members here, e46 M3, e63 M6, e92 M3 and my M4. They all sound great in their own way but I think the v8 just does it for me on sound. OK the v10 of the M6 is exotic , have a listen this with headphones on! The v10 is epic!

the M4 is stupd fast but I think the prpeviosu generation have more soul. I think Moe summed it up right with the piece about how the car feels. Outright power isn't everything. Within 6 seconds you can be in license losing territory, where's the fun in that? It is part of the reason I held on to my Mini, it just feels like you're goona die without having to hit ludicrous speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL9JeriR1wk