Suggest a 640d alternative

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07-10-20, 19:08
kdevitt

Suggest a 640d alternative

Am doing some (virtual) car shopping at the moment - will probably buy something but not in a rush. Its to be my daily - doesn't necessarily need to be practical in terms of carrying luggage of kids, but I'm not paying big motor tax anymore so that rules out a lot of options. Kind of means I'm looking towards something diesel as a result. 640d coupe and gran coupe have been of interest for a while - but I'm got a nagging feeling I'll find them as dull as dishwater, even though I've had them out a bit and quite like them.

Any alternatives people can think of? Needs to be cheap to tax - and relatively cheap to buy (<€25k)...and on a D plate :)
07-10-20, 19:18
ian.j

An extra 5k would get you a g30 530e m sport. That's what I'd buy if looking for a saloon car.

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07-10-20, 19:21
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian.j

An extra 5k would get you a g30 530e m sport. That's what I'd buy if looking for a saloon car.

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Yeah I know - but thats more than likely an option for when I'm replacing the family car - its very sensible!
07-10-20, 19:30
Peter-E36

CLS? E Class Coupé? A7? XJ?

Or wild card XK for 15k and spend some of the 10k change on extra motor tax to enjoy the V8?

I drove a couple of 640d (friends cars) including a really low mileage nearly new one and I was bored by the end of the drive. They’re pretty powerful, sound good, look good, can be economical, cheap to tax and can be very nicely specced yet there’s something missing! You just don’t love them or they don’t excite.
07-10-20, 19:44
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter-E36

CLS? E Class Coupé? A7? XJ?

Or wild card XK for 15k and spend some of the 10k change on extra motor tax to enjoy the V8?

I drove a couple of 640d (friends cars) including a really low mileage nearly new one and I was bored by the end of the drive. They’re pretty powerful, sound good, look good, can be economical, cheap to tax and can be very nicely specced yet there’s something missing! You just don’t love them or they don’t excite.

Not sure I'll ever get behind the wheel of a Merc, but I actually quite like the Jag XE. Probably still very sensible. Might have a goo at some Audis.
07-10-20, 19:55
nige

I've spent a lot of time in a friends Maserati Ghibli. Lots of people hate them but I love them, even in diesel guise. De-chrome the exterior and I think they're a cracking looking car with a great sounding diesel engine. My friends is black with a saddle brown interior and it feels like a special car.
07-10-20, 20:02
wcooba

XE will have in-house JLR 2.0 diesel engine known for timing chain issues (ironic to post it on BMW forum :) ). I had first gen XF for few years and well, build quality is nowhere near "the Germans"

A7 is a solid car, very planted and great for long distance cruising. Not particularly fun on twisties though.

+1 for 530e - the best of all saloons I had. Comfortable but also surprisingly agile. Or have a look at F30 330e - plenty of those around.

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07-10-20, 20:12
kdevitt

I should probably clarify that when I say its my daily, its just my main car - I don't drive to work, so I could get away with a two seater if I need to. The family car is an F31 though, so another F30 would be very samey I reckon, unless it was M powered of course.
07-10-20, 20:32
wcooba

Then don't buy a diesel man. Life is too short and all that [emoji3] Modern 2l petrols are relatively cheap to tax. Z4, golf R, maybe even latest gen. TT should be within that budget.

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07-10-20, 20:34
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcooba

Then don't buy a diesel man. Life is too short and all that [emoji3] Modern 2l petrols are relatively cheap to tax. Z4, golf R, maybe even latest gen. TT should be within that budget.

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Oh it doesn't have to be diesel - just not paying big motor tax!
07-10-20, 21:06
Curran

They aren't for everyone but I'd like to take one for a drive to see how they get down the road as I like how they look!

Alfa Giulia!!?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sal...ciale/24161604

Cant find a nice looking Petrol on sale at the moment but they are 200bhp and 280 annually for the disc!
07-10-20, 22:49
Obriener2054

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcooba

Then don't buy a diesel man. Life is too short and all that [emoji3] Modern 2l petrols are relatively cheap to tax. Z4, golf R, maybe even latest gen. TT should be within that budget.

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Feck that.... get a classic petrol..
07-10-20, 23:57
dergside

On the assumption that a 640d represents the limit of what you want to pay for road-tax (so, 155g/km is your CO2 limit) and with your budget, your choices are actually quite limited. I would add another criteria, EU6 compliance (on the assumption that pre-EU6 will be hammered progressively in the coming few years, and diesel even more than petrol). On the additional assumption that a final choice could be imported, then the NOx levy means that a pre-EU6 diesel is probably a non-runner, so you are limited to a 2015 onward diesel, or petrol from EU5 on if you're prepared to take the chance that they continue to tilt tax policy towards the existing CO2 categories rather than EU standard compliance.

I hear what you said about an F30, so I'm not sure that an F32 of F36 will do it for you, but a 430i auto could be a decent choice. Reasonable horse power and lighter 4 pot should make them a decent steer. A nicely spec'd M-Sport from the UK should make it inside your budget as VRT is relatively light (~10% less than a much lower CO2 2016 420d auto). Another decent value choice from the UK would be a Merc e350 diesel coupe (assuming you'd take the risk for the future of going diesel rather than petrol, even at EU6 compliance). A left-field choice would be a late VW Scirocco with the Golf GTI 217bhp engine. They might be a little bit long in the tooth, but they were regarded as a more than decent handling well equipped car and you'd have a reasonable amount of your budget left to do something else with.
08-10-20, 07:34
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curran

They aren't for everyone but I'd like to take one for a drive to see how they get down the road as I like how they look!

Alfa Giulia!!?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sal...ciale/24161604

Cant find a nice looking Petrol on sale at the moment but they are 200bhp and 280 annually for the disc!

I was looking at them briefly earlier, but they're appalling quality from what I was told. A local Fiat garage apparently had to have engineers flown over to fix 3 out of the 4 they sold new due to electrical issues.
08-10-20, 07:45
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dergside

On the assumption that a 640d represents the limit of what you want to pay for road-tax (so, 155g/km is your CO2 limit) and with your budget, your choices are actually quite limited. I would add another criteria, EU6 compliance (on the assumption that pre-EU6 will be hammered progressively in the coming few years, and diesel even more than petrol). On the additional assumption that a final choice could be imported, then the NOx levy means that a pre-EU6 diesel is probably a non-runner, so you are limited to a 2015 onward diesel, or petrol from EU5 on if you're prepared to take the chance that they continue to tilt tax policy towards the existing CO2 categories rather than EU standard compliance.

I hear what you said about an F30, so I'm not sure that an F32 of F36 will do it for you, but a 430i auto could be a decent choice. Reasonable horse power and lighter 4 pot should make them a decent steer. A nicely spec'd M-Sport from the UK should make it inside your budget as VRT is relatively light (~10% less than a much lower CO2 2016 420d auto). Another decent value choice from the UK would be a Merc e350 diesel coupe (assuming you'd take the risk for the future of going diesel rather than petrol, even at EU6 compliance). A left-field choice would be a late VW Scirocco with the Golf GTI 217bhp engine. They might be a little bit long in the tooth, but they were regarded as a more than decent handling well equipped car and you'd have a reasonable amount of your budget left to do something else with.

Might have a play around with the VRT calculator and see what it throws up. The NoX levy really adds a whopping amount to a lot of cars.

Had two MkV GTi's before, and they're fine - but not sure I'd be tempted by anything similar ta the moment. My alternative is to just skip buying anything and hold on until 2022 or something.
08-10-20, 09:02
318 iS Cosmos

What about an S3? Probably rare enough on our shores but the engine seems punchy enough. Still think I would prefer the 640d :)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...levance&page=1
08-10-20, 09:44
dergside

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdevitt

The NoX levy really adds a whopping amount to a lot of cars......

.....My alternative is to just skip buying anything and hold on until 2022 or something.

NOx levy is why I focused on EU6. Even with diesels, the NOx values are mostly in mid double figures, so its not a big number. EU5, and earlier, can be a very different story.

As a slight aside, BMW effectively offered EU6 compliance as an option on some models right back to around 2012 with the BluePerformance option, even though it wasn't mandatory until late 2015. On a car like an F30 330d it gives the benefit of lower NOx, drops a level on VRT and road-tax and uses a more customer friendly Depreciation Group for VRT versus an standard EU6 compliant car, and a significant NOx difference for a non-optioned car. They made some cars EU6 compliant much earlier than the required date, e.g. F10 530d was compliant from LCI in mid 2013 I believe, whereas 520d was only compliant from the introduction of the B47 in 2014 and the 320d didn't get that until early 2015 iirc. I've yet to find information that says the F01 730d was ever EU6 compliant without the BP option as the cutover to the G model more or less coincided with the mandatory date for EU6 compliance.

Re. waiting until later, one thing to consider is whether the sorts of car you might want are likely to be swimmers, especially if you were of a mind to source it yourself. Brexit is going to add cost and throw a spanner in the works, for a while at least, from the end of the year.
08-10-20, 11:55
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dergside

Re. waiting until later, one thing to consider is whether the sorts of car you might want are likely to be swimmers, especially if you were of a mind to source it yourself. Brexit is going to add cost and throw a spanner in the works, for a while at least, from the end of the year.

I had intended on an i8 truth be told, but the projects are eating up a substantial amount of cash so I'm not willing to put to much into a car at the moment. That situation obviously changes once the projects are out of the way. (although I'm potentially kidding myself thinking they will ever be out of the way).

In terms of Brexit, I'm led to believe there won't be an issue with VAT or duty, so putting off a purchase doesn't concern me as much as it would have a few months back. Interesting to read that about the Blueperformance - I always wondered what the story was with those, definitely opens up few options.
08-10-20, 12:18
dergside

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdevitt

Interesting to read that about the Blueperformance - I always wondered what the story was with those, definitely opens up few options.

Tread carefully, as its a term that gets misused and a lot of 2nd and 3rd owners may not be aware whether its fitted or not. Always get details from the V5 directly. Also, it was only available on some models, e.g. 530d but not 535d, etc.

Also, if an i8 was on your list, hang on for that. My brother in law has one. There are faster cars, but its a technical treat as far as I'm concerned.
08-10-20, 19:51
hooch

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdevitt

I had intended on an i8 truth be told, but the projects are eating up a substantial amount of cash so I'm not willing to put to much into a car at the moment. That situation obviously changes once the projects are out of the way. (although I'm potentially kidding myself thinking they will ever be out of the way).

In terms of Brexit, I'm led to believe there won't be an issue with VAT or duty, so putting off a purchase doesn't concern me as much as it would have a few months back. Interesting to read that about the Blueperformance - I always wondered what the story was with those, definitely opens up few options.

I don't know about that, I watched a revenue presentation yesterday and it seemed be confirm the contrary. Vat and duty will be due on cars from UK at the point of entry.

https://youtu.be/O_936g_Pgw8

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08-10-20, 20:04
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooch

I don't know about that, I watched a revenue presentation yesterday and it seemed be confirm the contrary. Vat and duty will be due on cars from UK at the point of entry.

That's assuming no trade agreement, and also - all UK cars registered until the end of this year have already had EU VAT and duty paid.
08-10-20, 20:48
wcooba

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdevitt

and also - all UK cars registered until the end of this year have already had EU VAT and duty paid.

Well that’s very grey area. European cars haven’t had duty paid as they were intra-EU imports at that time. Also the fact that car was registered in the UK doesn’t necessarily mean it had EU vat paid, and I’m sure onus will be on the importer to prove that.

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08-10-20, 20:52
kdevitt

VAT was paid to the UK exchequer - which was a European entity. Quite clear precedent on that based on the low mileage cars that come in here which you reclaim VAT from UK and pay here. Either way, sounds like there will be trade deal!
08-10-20, 21:03
Dan335

Get yourself an m135i/m140i maybe? Great cars but I'm a bit biased. Cheap tax per bhp too
08-10-20, 21:09
wcooba

Hopefully there will be a deal!

On the vat - there are some edge cases where car is uk registered but vat wasn’t paid. One example would be a car brought by expat from Australia, but I’m sure there are more. How would you prove if EU vat was paid or not having only V5C at hand?

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08-10-20, 21:27
dergside

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdevitt

VAT was paid to the UK exchequer - which was a European entity. Quite clear precedent on that based on the low mileage cars that come in here which you reclaim VAT from UK and pay here. Either way, sounds like there will be trade deal!

I understand your point Ken, and there is some merit I would think. But there could be a grey area if a car was bought by a business, the VAT reclaimed and a disposal occurs after Dec 31st. That could make it a bit of a minefield when buying.
08-10-20, 21:31
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by dergside

I understand your point Ken, and there is some merit I would think. But there could be a grey area if a car was bought by a business, the VAT reclaimed and a disposal occurs after Dec 31st. That could make it a bit of a minefield when buying.

But that would then be VAT free sale UK Side. In the case of someone importing the car from Oz or whatever to UK first, the car will be tax compliant prior to Brexit. Anyway, its an issue for another day!
13-10-20, 07:53
kdevitt

Will be interesting to see what budget day brings today - with the top tax rate apparently going up by €50 I can't see massive increases in motor tax, but the VRT might be a a different story. With that in mind - I'm restricting my search for any diesels to currently imported cars at the moment, will probably pop out to look at a 640d gran coupe at the weekend. Am also going to look into importing a 530e - VRT is already very cheap, but will be curious to see what impact the budget has on that. I prefer the looks of the 6er but the 5er feels far more future proofed from the Greens.
16-11-20, 12:18
Big H

A month on - did you pull the trigger at all yet ?

UK trade deal is still up in the air, so nobody knows what to do at all......:confused:
16-11-20, 12:46
dergside

It’s not that easy to buy anything at the moment in the UK, given the restrictions with their lockdown. Only dealers that can do Click and Collect open and then only for collections, no viewings. I’m trying to see if I can get a deal done on a car. I have brother close enough to the dealer but no viewing possible. I’m a bit uncomfortable with paying upfront for a car that I, or anyone I trust, hasn't seen.
16-11-20, 12:57
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big H

A month on - did you pull the trigger at all yet ?

UK trade deal is still up in the air, so nobody knows what to do at all......:confused:

Yep -

http://www.retrobmw.ie/images/640d/rs_IMG_2834.jpg

Loving it so far.
16-11-20, 13:03
Big H

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdevitt

Yep - Loving it so far.

Smashing - they really have great road presence and do so much so well. Did you buy one already here or run the import gauntlet ?
16-11-20, 13:53
kdevitt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big H

Smashing - they really have great road presence and do so much so well. Did you buy one already here or run the import gauntlet ?

I bought one that was here - just no way of importing a UK one of that year and making it work out cheaper (its 2013). Seriously considered the 530e - which, unlike the 640d, is definitely a a bargain if you import it.