Commuting options

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14-09-20, 10:52
CitizenKane

Commuting options

Long story short, there is a possibility that I may end up relocating (quite far) outside of the capital in the near future. I'd still be working from Dublin, so this would mean about a 2 hour commute (each way), but I'd be hopeful this could be supplemented by at least a couple of days a week working from home, which seems a more likely prospect now given the last 6 months we've had with Covid.

Anyway, I had been holding out for some time that my next daily driver would be an M car of some sort, but I assume a commute like this throws that idea out the window.

Realistically would I be right to say that a big frugal diesel is still really the only way to go with a commute like this, or has fuel economy on petrol cars improved in recent years to the point that it could still be feasible with a somewhat performance oriented petrol car? Does anyone have any suggestions for a car that might tick both the economy and performance boxes?

I've worked and lived in Dublin my whole life so never had to really consider this before, so apologies if these are silly questions!
14-09-20, 11:11
318 iS Cosmos

Not a silly question at all. What sort of commute will it be? Lots of traffic or mostly motorway? You should ask ‘Ketron’ on here about his experience with a petrol performance car (M135i) and his commute to and from Kilkenny.
Would your new location have access to the rail network?
I moved down to Kilkenny 4 years ago and bought a 530d for the commutes up to Dublin. A few months in, I ended up using the train instead and got to keep the M3 too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
14-09-20, 11:27
Curran

I can shed some light on the M135i but Ketron can give better feedback of long motorway journeys.

I've a 35km commute, 70km daily, which consists of 25% Motorway at 120kmph, 25% National Roads at 100kmph and 50% B Roads at 80kmph and at 6am if I'm tipping along, so no real traffic to speak of, Im seeing 35+mpg. Then maybe about 33mpg in the evenings with a bit of traffic. 30+ is easy even with frequent squeezes of the throttle leaving junctions and merging onto motorways. On days off, around a busy town, you'd be down around 22-24mpg.

The only downside to the M135i with long journeys is the tiny tank. Other than that, if you will be leaving it sitting on the driveway a day or two of the work week, then I'd say it could be considered!
14-09-20, 12:39
kdevitt

Train for the commute and M car for the weekend?
14-09-20, 13:31
Big H

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

so this would mean about a 2 hour commute (each way)

Totally OT, but there's no job in the world I'd do 4hrs a day commuting for - that's insanity.....:rolleyes: (yes, acutely aware that plenty do).

A couple of days a week working from home would of course take the sting out of it, but 2 hours morning driving (much of it in rush hour traffic) would not have me set up for a productive day in the office at all....
14-09-20, 15:36
JohnH

Is it 2hrs each way in normal traffic (eg Kilcock to D1) or 2 hrs in Covid reduced traffic (almost Galway to D1)?

Andy does more driving than anyone I know and has been rocking VWs for the last few years so that might be an idea.

I know another chap who used to drive a lot and in 6/7 years he had about 400k km on his 04 Golf which he bought new.
14-09-20, 16:16
Big H

Not sure what your budget is of course but a 240bhp Bi-Turbo Arteon 4Motion DSG would be a fine motorway cruiser, great in the winter, economical and all the power you're likely to need commuting....:)

https://www.agnewcars.com/volkswagen...9061418262777/

https://cogusedcarimagecdn3.azureedg...oth&quality=80

We just got a 2015 (newer model) Passst GT 2.0 TDI 150bhp into the family and it is a fine car I have to say....
14-09-20, 20:54
Ketron

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

Long story short, there is a possibility that I may end up relocating (quite far) outside of the capital in the near future. I'd still be working from Dublin, so this would mean about a 2 hour commute (each way), but I'd be hopeful this could be supplemented by at least a couple of days a week working from home, which seems a more likely prospect now given the last 6 months we've had with Covid.

Anyway, I had been holding out for some time that my next daily driver would be an M car of some sort, but I assume a commute like this throws that idea out the window.

Realistically would I be right to say that a big frugal diesel is still really the only way to go with a commute like this, or has fuel economy on petrol cars improved in recent years to the point that it could still be feasible with a somewhat performance oriented petrol car? Does anyone have any suggestions for a car that might tick both the economy and performance boxes?

I've worked and lived in Dublin my whole life so never had to really consider this before, so apologies if these are silly questions!

Before the lock down I was commuting from Kilkenny to Dublin three days a week, I've been doing it for about 3 years or so since moving back from Dublin. Train doesnt suit due to times, and as I work in Citywest its far quicker to drive. I would crack up being on a crowded train everyday anyway. Its a lot to take on but as I'm originally from Kilkenny and like the country its a prices worth paying for me.

I left early, around 5:40 or so to be in the office for 7am and left the office at 3.30 to avoid traffic. I did around 70k km in the M135i that Curran now has, initially it was fine in the M135i but I found the way it handled on the motorway was tiring due to its short wheelbase, fuel consumption was really good on it (tiny tank though!). It averaged around 35mpg over 70k km I think.

I purchased a 5 series at the end of last year, just wanted something that was quiet and not as tiring to drive. The 5 is fine on juice although coming from the M135i seriously lacking in power, in saying that you dont need power when munching motorway miles. It does around 40mpg, its comfortable albeit a bit boring come the weekends. Something like a 540i so might suit you depending on budget, they make 100bhp more than the F10 530d with the MPPSK and sound good too.

The irony though, I haven't been in the office in seven months now! Totally WFH now and I cant see that changing. Eyeing up a possible change again!
15-09-20, 00:43
Obriener2054

I pull in 32mpg on backroads on the drive from west Wicklow to clondalkin in the E60 535d.. and it’s great fun aswell, mpg isn’t a care for me but it’s nice not being at the pump every few days... could be an option for you? As that’s with no motorway driving
16-09-20, 10:33
CitizenKane

Thanks for the replies all!

If we were to do the move it would be on the other side of the Shannon, not particularly close to any public transport but the commute would be almost all motorway. It's probably close to 250km each way. I'm under no illusions as to how radical this might seem and I doubt that many people ever do this sort of commute. There's lots of objective reasons why it makes no sense, but for a couple of reasons it might actually make sense for us if we could just figure out the commute.

It's interesting to hear the views on commuting in the M135i, which does seem to suggest it wouldn't be totally crazy to commute with something like an F80/F82 (I'm sure there are lots of these cars that spend a lot of time on the Autobahn), but nearly 500km a day is no small number..

I had been budgeting for a pre-LCI F80/F82, but I suppose one option I hadn't really considered was splitting my budget to get something like a diesel E60 or F10 for the commute and potentially an E46 or E92 M3 for the weekends..

Quote:

Originally Posted by 318 iS Cosmos

Not a silly question at all. What sort of commute will it be? Lots of traffic or mostly motorway? You should ask ‘Ketron’ on here about his experience with a petrol performance car (M135i) and his commute to and from Kilkenny.
Would your new location have access to the rail network?
I moved down to Kilkenny 4 years ago and bought a 530d for the commutes up to Dublin. A few months in, I ended up using the train instead and got to keep the M3 too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unfortunately wouldn't be near any public transport, but even if it was I'm not sure it would be a runner because the train would take a fair bit longer than the car. It's almost all motorway miles I believe!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curran

I can shed some light on the M135i but Ketron can give better feedback of long motorway journeys.

I've a 35km commute, 70km daily, which consists of 25% Motorway at 120kmph, 25% National Roads at 100kmph and 50% B Roads at 80kmph and at 6am if I'm tipping along, so no real traffic to speak of, Im seeing 35+mpg. Then maybe about 33mpg in the evenings with a bit of traffic. 30+ is easy even with frequent squeezes of the throttle leaving junctions and merging onto motorways. On days off, around a busy town, you'd be down around 22-24mpg.

The only downside to the M135i with long journeys is the tiny tank. Other than that, if you will be leaving it sitting on the driveway a day or two of the work week, then I'd say it could be considered!

Interesting thanks. The small tank is definitely something I'd need to factor in, given the length of this commute!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdevitt

Train for the commute and M car for the weekend?

This would make sense but as above we wouldn't be near any public transport!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big H

Totally OT, but there's no job in the world I'd do 4hrs a day commuting for - that's insanity.....:rolleyes: (yes, acutely aware that plenty do).

A couple of days a week working from home would of course take the sting out of it, but 2 hours morning driving (much of it in rush hour traffic) would not have me set up for a productive day in the office at all....

100% hear you. It wouldn't be my ideal scenario, but just considering it as a possibility that may work for us at this point in time. There is no real alternative to my job outside of the capital and I'm in it for the long haul. But I hear you, my commute into work now in Dublin doesn't exactly leave me feeling refreshed when I arrive in the office so I can imagine a much longer commute would be challenging. Before we make any decisions on this we are going to do a trial-run of the commute for a week to see how feasible it might be in reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big H

Not sure what your budget is of course but a 240bhp Bi-Turbo Arteon 4Motion DSG would be a fine motorway cruiser, great in the winter, economical and all the power you're likely to need commuting....:)

https://www.agnewcars.com/volkswagen...9061418262777/

https://cogusedcarimagecdn3.azureedg...oth&quality=80

We just got a 2015 (newer model) Passst GT 2.0 TDI 150bhp into the family and it is a fine car I have to say....

Interesting. Aside from my old Mk4 GTI I don't know much about VWs. Looks like a nice machine. Although if I was resigned to getting myself a (relatively) economical diesel cruiser I'd be more excited by something like an Audi A7 or a RR Sport!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ketron

Before the lock down I was commuting from Kilkenny to Dublin three days a week, I've been doing it for about 3 years or so since moving back from Dublin. Train doesnt suit due to times, and as I work in Citywest its far quicker to drive. I would crack up being on a crowded train everyday anyway. Its a lot to take on but as I'm originally from Kilkenny and like the country its a prices worth paying for me.

I left early, around 5:40 or so to be in the office for 7am and left the office at 3.30 to avoid traffic. I did around 70k km in the M135i that Curran now has, initially it was fine in the M135i but I found the way it handled on the motorway was tiring due to its short wheelbase, fuel consumption was really good on it (tiny tank though!). It averaged around 35mpg over 70k km I think.

I purchased a 5 series at the end of last year, just wanted something that was quiet and not as tiring to drive. The 5 is fine on juice although coming from the M135i seriously lacking in power, in saying that you dont need power when munching motorway miles. It does around 40mpg, its comfortable albeit a bit boring come the weekends. Something like a 540i so might suit you depending on budget, they make 100bhp more than the F10 530d with the MPPSK and sound good too.

The irony though, I haven't been in the office in seven months now! Totally WFH now and I cant see that changing. Eyeing up a possible change again!

Very interesting, thanks for the input. As above I would be looking at mainly motorway miles so this is all very interesting. I hadn't considered a petrol 5 series - will look into it. I wonder how the fuel economy of the 540i would compare to the M135i, or even an F80/82?

Of course I've been the same with working from home the last 6 months save for a handful of trips to the office or client meetings. There's no doubt there is a sea change with WFH and it's entirely possible that I could end up working more days from home than not even beyond Covid, which is really the only reason we are even contemplating this sort of move. If we both expected to go back to the office full time after this I don't think we'd be entertaining it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obriener2054

I pull in 32mpg on backroads on the drive from west Wicklow to clondalkin in the E60 535d.. and it’s great fun aswell, mpg isn’t a care for me but it’s nice not being at the pump every few days... could be an option for you? As that’s with no motorway driving

Yeah the E60 certainly seems like a logical option. I do love that car and the 535d seems to tick a lot of boxes.
16-09-20, 11:40
Big H

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

It's almost all motorway miles I believe

Have to do Galway to Citywest maybe once a month for the day and while yes, it's motorway most of the way, once you hit say Kilcock @ 7am, it can be a crawl, like 1st and 2nd gear for a lot of the remainder - soul destroying (maybe Covid has changed that as i haven't done that journey since Feb).....

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

Although if I was resigned to getting myself a (relatively) economical diesel cruiser I'd be more excited by something like a RR Sport!

So you want to arrive to work every day in the AA van with the RR on the back then....:p
16-09-20, 11:52
318 iS Cosmos

I would definitely recommend a trial run if you can. Based on my own experience, it’s not something I would ever consider again. My commute (albeit a mixture of car and public transport) was 2.5 hours each way at a minimum, I had 2 kids under 1 at the time and was working on a very stressful project. I lasted about 2.5 years before I ended up moving back to Dublin!

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16-09-20, 13:16
dergside

I can only speak for myself here, but much as I love driving, I suspect that the ‘enjoyment’ of an M or the like would soon wear off.

I know we had some debate on this when Ketron was looking at a replacement for the 135i but I really feel that the 2 highest priorities for this kind of mileage is refinement (long legged and comfortable) and somewhat cost effective? Keep a separate ‘leisure’ car for the weekends, etc.

A couple of weeks ago I found myself doing a North Donegal-Tipp and Tipp-Dublin (return) in a 24 hour period - just short of 800kms. I did it on the e60 and got out of the car without being crippled, etc. I can only imagine the state of my rib cage and kidneys if I had done the same in the Z. Do something like that a few days a week and I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be feeling that the Z was a treat.

That’s a personal opinion, of course, but based on a decent variety of cars, regular journeys, etc over many years.
16-09-20, 13:22
CitizenKane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big H

Have to do Galway to Citywest maybe once a month for the day and while yes, it's motorway most of the way, once you hit say Kilcock @ 7am, it can be a crawl, like 1st and 2nd gear for a lot of the remainder - soul destroying (maybe Covid has changed that as i haven't done that journey since Feb).....

This is exactly the type of detail that I hadn't really thought about which is why it's great to hear from people with first hand experience (rather than basing the commute time on a Google Maps estimate without factoring in the time of day...).

I think it will be interesting to see the long-term effect of Covid on traffic. On the one hand more people will be working from home, but on the other hand those that commute might be less inclined to use public transport.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big H

So you want to arrive to work every day in the AA van with the RR on the back then....:p

:D Point taken, maybe not the most sensible option!
16-09-20, 13:23
CitizenKane

Quote:

Originally Posted by 318 iS Cosmos

I would definitely recommend a trial run if you can. Based on my own experience, it’s not something I would ever consider again. My commute (albeit a mixture of car and public transport) was 2.5 hours each way at a minimum, I had 2 kids under 1 at the time and was working on a very stressful project. I lasted about 2.5 years before I ended up moving back to Dublin!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the insight. Is that 2.5 hours each way when you were commuting from Kilkenny? If so that really doesn't bode well for a commute that is nearly twice as long as that..
16-09-20, 13:33
CitizenKane

Quote:

Originally Posted by dergside

I can only speak for myself here, but much as I love driving, I suspect that the ‘enjoyment’ of an M or the like would soon wear off.

I know we had some debate on this when Ketron was looking at a replacement for the 135i but I really feel that the 2 highest priorities for this kind of mileage is refinement (long legged and comfortable) and somewhat cost effective? Keep a separate ‘leisure’ car for the weekends, etc.

A couple of weeks ago I found myself doing a North Donegal-Tipp and Tipp-Dublin (return) in a 24 hour period - just short of 800kms. I did it on the e60 and got out of the car without being crippled, etc. I can only imagine the state of my rib cage and kidneys if I had done the same in the Z. Do something like that a few days a week and I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be feeling that the Z was a treat.

That’s a personal opinion, of course, but based on a decent variety of cars, regular journeys, etc over many years.

Hard to disagree with the logic of any of that to be fair. Again I am coming at this from someone who's never really had any commute, so I really have no idea how quickly I would get sick of it (probably very).

A guy I work with commutes from Newry to Dublin most days in an F80 and he doesn't mind it, but again that's still not really a comparable commute to the one I'm considering.

If refinement and (relative) cost effectiveness were my priorities, does anyone have any recommendations for something that would best tick these boxes (BMW or otherwise) assuming a budget of say 20-25k? Another guy I know commutes in an Audi A7 and he raves about how good it is for that purpose and I can see the appeal of something like that too.
16-09-20, 13:53
NickThePartsGuy

I drove from Carlow to Dublin everyday for the best part of 18 months in my E90 330d and it does about 42mpg
their great motorway cruisers
16-09-20, 14:19
Curran

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

(rather than basing the commute time on a Google Maps estimate without factoring in the time of day...).

There is a setting on Google Maps that you can set your departure time and day on....it based the calculation on the average over the past few weeks.
So while you may have checked it at 3pm on a Saturday and its saying 2hrs, you can quickly change it to 5.30am on a Monday and it might report 3hrs...handy function!

I think I'd struggle to use the M135i from Shannon on a daily basis. Would a 640d tick more of the boxes than a 3 or a 5?
16-09-20, 14:27
318 iS Cosmos

Commuting options

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

Thanks for the insight. Is that 2.5 hours each way when you were commuting from Kilkenny? If so that really doesn't bode well for a commute that is nearly twice as long as that..

Yep. That included - driving to the station, train from Kilkenny to Heuston, bus from Heuston into town then walking to Grand Canal from Trinity.
I did drive in occasionally but the M7/N7 was a disaster.

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16-09-20, 15:50
Obriener2054

I have a Range Rover sport and have done a few long drives in it.... I do be near broke after 3 hours.... I do like to be well inclined to sit well leaned back in a seat which the RRS isn’t suited for .... get about 333 mpg on a motorway run in one ... 2.7tdv6
16-09-20, 17:05
Andy

Covering decent miles on a regular basis necessitates certain things for me. Comfort, reliability, safety and driver aids, space and auto box. Manual and traffic becomes tiresome very quickly especially at the end of a tiring day or week. The same would apply to something highly strung that involves effort to drive. On any given day you could be fatigued from a bad nights sleep, winter v summer driving etc etc. Performance really isn’t a huge concern as the speed traps will take the shine off that quick enough. Most 2 litre diesels will huddle along quite well. Driving. Position plays a part too. Cruiser boy v recommended advanced driving position. This is what a use currently. I was behind the wheel for over 7 hrs and 650km one day last week. No aches or pains.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...da3a18c36a.jpg
16-09-20, 19:23
wcooba

I had A7 for few years and C7 A6 before that. Great cars to swallow motorway miles but not super engaging. I would recommend facelift version (2015+) if this is what you consider.
I think some motorway tool + older weekend fun car make a lot of sense in the scenario you describe. Commuting those distances in something like M3 will cost you a lot in maintenance and depreciation.
Also for those boring motorway drives adaptive cruise control is brilliant - it's a shame very few used cars have it here.

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17-09-20, 10:53
eddiem74

Doing a real world scenario trial run over a period of a week is a good idea to gain some perspective.

If you have never done such a commute it will get old pretty quick in my view, especially the days you need to be in office even earlier or get stuck there a bit later.

For example, I live on the Northside of Dublin and periodically had to travel to Athlone, it was 1hr 40mins door to door and I found if I needed to be there 3 days straight it made more sense for me to stay over one night, else I was just wrecked from the commute. Additionally my old boss in his prior company used to do 2 weeks in the US and 2 weeks home whilst on a long project, so a bit of a road warrior you could say. Pre-Covid he used to come from Birr to Dublin and if he needed to be there 5 days a week he ended up staying over 1 if not 2 nights. Now that we are remote working since lockdown, he never wants to go back to that commute.

Plus depending on your stage of life with kids, etc Do you want to be gone in the morning or home in the evening when everyone is in bed or looking to go to bed. Not be able to bring the kids to their activities, or do you own stuff.

Lots to think about in my view.
17-09-20, 11:59
Ketron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

Covering decent miles on a regular basis necessitates certain things for me. Comfort, reliability, safety and driver aids, space and auto box. Manual and traffic becomes tiresome very quickly especially at the end of a tiring day or week. The same would apply to something highly strung that involves effort to drive. On any given day you could be fatigued from a bad nights sleep, winter v summer driving etc etc. Performance really isn’t a huge concern as the speed traps will take the shine off that quick enough. Most 2 litre diesels will huddle along quite well. Driving. Position plays a part too. Cruiser boy v recommended advanced driving position. This is what a use currently. I was behind the wheel for over 7 hrs and 650km one day last week. No aches or pains.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...da3a18c36a.jpg

Just to reiterate what Andy said and its something that I forgot about, driving position plays a major factor. You want comfortable seats, my lower back ended up quite sore in the M135i due to lack of lumbar support, its not something you notice immediately but its not fun!

I worked in Clontarf and used to commute from Drimnagh and it was an hour each way in horrible traffic. I'd take a longer motorway commute with the cruise on any day of the week. See if your employer will allow some flexitime if you have to go to the office so you can avoid rush hour traffic, start early and finish early or vice versa.

My total driving was 2.5 hours to 3 hours a day, so nearly 40 hours a month stuck in my car so you really have to cost in the wasted time along with missed opportunities with family etc in the evenings. I costed in the time spent in the car along with the cost of commuting before I moved back to the country. I have a house with a nice view that I'd never have been able to afford similar in Dublin so it was totally worth it for me. (Plus its not in Dublin so there is that bonus too :D )
17-09-20, 20:00
eddiem74

Not to derail this thread but where would one get information on the optimum driving position and how to achieve it. Is there something reputable or just go with Google?
17-09-20, 21:37
JohnH

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiem74

Not to derail this thread but where would one get information on the optimum driving position and how to achieve it. Is there something reputable or just go with Google?

Years ago an advanced driving instructor showed me how to sit in a seat properly.

Here’s what he said:
- Seat base should be flat and support the whole upper leg, not sloping down and not up at the front like a fake bucket seat.
- the seat back should be in a position so that when your shoulder blades are against the seat back and you stretch out your arm, your wrist should rest on the top of the steering wheel.

This will feel really weird at the start, and you’ll feel way too close to the wheel. I admit now I do recline the seat back a tiny bit more than that but not by much.

I find it very supportive. I have come off an overnight flight, gotten into a car and driven to Galway and back without aches or pains. I’m sure Conor will say my seats are way too far forward for someone who is 6’ 3”.
17-09-20, 21:52
alan996

I was taught the same by a rally driver.

By putting your watch on the top of the wheel when you put your hands at quarter to three, they are slightly bent.

Plus you can turn the wheel through 180 degrees without having to move your hands.

Been driving like that now for years and it made a big difference

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17-09-20, 22:04
Curran

I too have had similar advice and Chris Harris has YouTube video on it too. I set up like that for a spirited drive and a touch further back in distance and recline when regular driving.
28-09-20, 15:55
Big H

As a slight aside on this, I was talking (mumbling through a mask from 2 metres away more like :p) to an estate agent friend over the weekend who is working for a firm in Galway, and he says enquiries and viewings have gone through the roof from Dublin based galwegians over the past 2-3 months as more & more people decide to move out of Dublin to work remotely. Many businesses now know it can be done quite successfully so are happy to let people do it now on a permanent basis.

It's totally job dependant of course, but if there was any way you could work remotely for the majority of the week, then it may not be so bad at all.