4 Series Concept

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/4-...with-bold-look

Generally I try to keep an open mind about new car design, but if this is indicative of how the 4 series will actually look then I am disappointed. It's not even so much the grilles for me (although they are hideous), but I'm almost more disappointed with how unoriginal it is. To me this just looks like a mash up of an A5 from the side, some sort of Lexus from the rear and a C-Class coupe from the front/side (if you don't focus on the grilles).

Thoughts?

Well that would have to grown on me, does seem consistent with the new "design language" but a challenging aesthetic for me.

Front looks awful, why are they persisting with that hideous grille?

Hideous beyond belief.

Wow... That's hard on the eyes...

I think it is a case of



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcsXtiN8-UY

Not keen on this front end style language at all. I’ll be at the show in Frankfurt on Thurs and Fri so will reserve judgment on the overall impact until I see it in the flesh.

The treatment of the lower window line is telling, the curved line differentiating it from the straight line of the outgoing coupe models. I'd guess the grille is simply an OTT design element to promote discussion in the media and places like this.

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Originally Posted by dergside

Not keen on this front end style language at all. I’ll be at the show in Frankfurt on Thurs and Fri so will reserve judgment on the overall impact until I see it in the flesh.

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Will be there myself on the Friday 20th, Sat 21st

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Originally Posted by Roberto

I'd guess the grille is simply an OTT design element to promote discussion in the media and places like this.

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I agree. The practicalities of that front are challenging, e.g. where do you place a reg. plate. I'd imagine there is some exaggeration for the concept that will be toned down a little for the production version. Past practice though is that the concept cars aren't that far from the production version and that the main differences are things like throwing out the futuristic mirrors and flush door handles for something they can actually build.

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Originally Posted by rebel.ranter

Will be there myself on the Friday 20th, Sat 21st

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Will pop you a PM later and maybe can coordinate a bit of lunch or something on Friday? I'm on the evening flight back to Dublin Friday with Aer Lingus.

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Originally Posted by dergside

Will pop you a PM later and maybe can coordinate a bit of lunch or something on Friday? I'm on the evening flight back to Dublin Friday with Aer Lingus.

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Are 2 days needed for it? I’m possibly going Friday/Saturday but was just budgeting 1 day for the show and the 2nd for a dander round the city (Sinn watch factory mostly)

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Originally Posted by Enda

Are 2 days needed for it? I’m possibly going Friday/Saturday but was just budgeting 1 day for the show and the 2nd for a dander round the city (Sinn watch factory mostly)

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We are thinking of renting a car on the Saturday and driving to the Nurburgring (on a rescue mission for next year) if we find that the first day at the show is enough. Or maybe go to Stuttgart to Mercedes and Porsche museum. I’ve heard both are great too. Both trips are about 2hrs each way from Frankfurt.

Thanks, just booked it there for this Friday/Saturday. I think I will leave the show until the Saturday as going Friday involves a trade ticket at 3 times the price.

Thursday is a trade day. All it means is ticket prices are higher and fewer people are there so its easier to get around and actually see things. Friday is the first public day and will be busier. Saturday was always chokka any time I've been there, especially in the Mercedes and BMW halls where you don't so much walk around and get carried on the wave of people moving.

If you take a bit of time looking at things I've found that just the one day isn't enough if you only fly over on the morning. By the time you've arrived in Frankfurt, gotten trains, etc. its late morning and although the show runs late enough I'd say its tight to see everything. Having said that though, I do enjoy mooching around the industry halls as well as the actual cars. On a public day I'd find it hard to get around it all.

Thanks, it looks like Friday is a trade day too this year. I think I may suck up the cost based on your experience of the Saturday though!

Just had a quick walk through the BMW hall and it’s quite disappointing. In previous years the BMW Group had a hell to themselves, covering MINI and RR too. This year they are in an or rd of that hall with about half a dozen other brands, including Opel and Hyundai (and Alpina). It’s a fraction of their usual display.

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Originally Posted by dergside

Just had a quick walk through the BMW hall and it’s quite disappointing. In previous years the BMW Group had a hell to themselves, covering MINI and RR too. This year they are in an or rd of that hall with about half a dozen other brands, including Opel and Hyundai (and Alpina). It’s a fraction of their usual display.

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I think the fact that BMW have lost nearly half their value in the last 5 years and they dropped by 25% in the last year alone has something to do with the lack lustre display at the show.

Plus their CEO Harald Krüger stepped down in July, it seems that not all is well on BMW. And that’s before we start talking about the mad front grille phenomenon we are seeing!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1f276839d2.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The stock is comparison on par with their competitors, so I don't think theres a specific BMW issue (apart from almost all their current cars looking awful). Stock price has mirrored Benz for that 5yr period, and is running close to VW - who now have a higher price despite all the dieselgate shenanigans.

http://www.retrobmw.ie/images/stockcomparison.jpg

If you're into tech analysis, I'd be keeping a close eye on BMW - decent buy signal with the price looking like it will cross the 100 day moving average over the next few days.

Following Kens advice might be one way to make money from BMW. If my fleet is anything to go by it might be the only way ��.

Back to the original topic. If they tone down a few of the OTT aspects of design, like the toothy grin grill, mirrors and rear diffuser then the 4 Concept could be a decent looking car. Quite different to the previous few generations but could be a step change, like the e36 was from the e30. If they leave the toothy grin then I think I’m old enough for a Mercedes......

Sad times...

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Originally Posted by dergside

......I think I’m old enough for a Mercedes......

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Come to the dark side.... it’s very wafty :D

I’m correcting myself here. This year a good run on one day would probably be enough to cover all there is to see. It’s a bit disappointing I have to say. A lot fewer cars than usual and a lot more software vendors among the trade exhibitors. Quite a few brands haven’t bothered showing up and most have relatively smaller displays and models represented.

So at the moment there seems to be common trends of declining financial performance of car manufacturers, greater importance being attached to climate issues by most sections of society and consequently a rapidly increasing sentiment against the combustion engine, and maybe (going by some people's experience of the Frankfurt motor show) a sense of people just being less interested in cars in general than they used to be. And to top it all off, BMW's designers appear to have all lost their minds.

Not a great time to be a car enthusiast really is it.

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Originally Posted by dergside

I’m correcting myself here. This year a good run on one day would probably be enough to cover all there is to see. It’s a bit disappointing I have to say. A lot fewer cars than usual and a lot more software vendors among the trade exhibitors. Quite a few brands haven’t bothered showing up and most have relatively smaller displays and models represented.

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I’d agree with that, I was gone by 4. I made the mistake of going to the VW/Audi/Porsche hall first and everything was down hill from there! Loved the Honda E. It’s a cool little car.

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Originally Posted by CitizenKane

So at the moment there seems to be common trends of declining financial performance of car manufacturers, greater importance being attached to climate issues by most sections of society and consequently a rapidly increasing sentiment against the combustion engine, and maybe (going by some people's experience of the Frankfurt motor show) a sense of people just being less interested in cars in general than they used to be. And to top it all off, BMW's designers appear to have all lost their minds.

Not a great time to be a car enthusiast really is it.

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I think that you are right, EV's are gaining a lot of momentum and once you get into the EV mindset a lot of ICE cars start to seem a bit stupid, and the Germans are scrambling to catch up.

I watched a bit of a slide show on one trade stand that quoted some research that said the market will be 40/30/30% divided between full EV/hybrid of any kind/ICE. That suggests that there will still be quite a proportion of ICE in to the future.

What would worry me is that the investment in technology, battery, platform for ICE engined cars will diminish significantly. As the electric/hybrid tech develops and comes to market it probably means we are within 3-4 years of peak ICE technology development.

The cost of development of the electric platforms mean development sharing between manufacturers which probably means less diversity and probably a further round of consolidation in vendors, if not brands.

I don't remember a time when things weren't getting worse for car enthusiasts to be honest.

It's been a consistent downward trend for a long time.

It's pretty depressing. Part of the fun of performance cars (to me) is that they're supposed to be "dangerous", impractical, not everyone should be able to drive them, or own them, you should be making some sort of sacrifice to have one which in itself sets you apart from the average joe in their HIDEOUS Nissan Tida.

Soon, the electric "Nissan Tidas" of the world will be as quick or quicker than performance ICE cars. The diesel phenomenon already bridged quite a bit of the gap between "normal car" and "performance car". At least in a straight line.

Soon ICE sports cars will be considered irrelevant by 99.9% of people - even Mo is already converted :D The 0.1% can go on about the driving experience and the noise (which is already being taken away by WLTP if nothing else) as much as we want but it'll be pi$$ing in the wind.

Not to mention how "anti-social" it's becoming to own or drive a sports car or big engined car, motor tax, brexit which will soon deprive us of UK cars unless you're willing to pay through the nose. It's the perfect storm.

I think I'm nearly ready to throw in the towel... :(

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Originally Posted by Peter-E36

.... I think I'm nearly ready to throw in the towel... :(

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I thought you already had, when you bought a Merc!


I know, I know, it’s only a few posts back when I was threatening to do that myself.....!

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Originally Posted by dergside

I thought you already had, when you bought a Merc!


I know, I know, it’s only a few posts back when I was threatening to do that myself.....!

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That's exactly what happened :D

Now it's a matter of getting the house purchase out of the way - because that's all it is, an obstacle :p - and then I can continue my struggle against the status quo with expensive to tax anti social things.