Motor Tax Changes

It's no surprise that with the arse falling out of motor tax takings due to the advent of the 'low tax' cars of the past decade (and will get worse as Hybrids/Electrics get further traction), some inevitable changes are in the pipeline.

While nothing formal has been announced, how do people see this going ?

In the short term, it'll just be probably a slight tweaking of the existing Co2 bands, but will the pre '08 bands be ammended also (as someone with a 2.5 & a 3.0 pre Co2 based car, this could get nasty)......

Thoughts :confused:

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Originally Posted by Big H

While nothing formal has been announced, how do people see this going ?

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I think it’ll be quite simple.

There’ll be a big hullabaloo about how it’s good for us all but in the end the average Joe in a regular family car will end up paying more!

As long as they screw the 2008-2018 cars I'm OK with that! :D

Really, they need to do a reducing balance approach but I'd say their systems are not capable of managing such a system. It is not fair that someone who can afford a €100k plus Tesla gets the cheapest rate of tax while those struggling to own a 2007 ford Focus pays multiples of the Tesla tax.

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Originally Posted by rebel.ranter

As long as they screw the 2008-2018 cars I'm OK with that! :D

Really, they need to do a reducing balance approach but I'd say their systems are not capable of managing such a system. It is not fair that someone who can afford a €100k plus Tesla gets the cheapest rate of tax while those struggling to own a 2007 ford Focus pays multiples of the Tesla tax.

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To be fair, someone buying a €100k car is already handing over a fair chunk of cash to the revenue commissioners in the form of VAT and VRT.

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Originally Posted by rebel.ranter

As long as they screw the 2008-2018 cars I'm OK with that! :D

Really, they need to do a reducing balance approach but I'd say their systems are not capable of managing such a system. It is not fair that someone who can afford a €100k plus Tesla gets the cheapest rate of tax while those struggling to own a 2007 ford Focus pays multiples of the Tesla tax.

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Fairest way would surely be a set percentage of the current OMSP? Revenue already OMSP have figures, so say something like 2% of OMSP revised yearly?

I'd say diesels will be slowly targeted under some environmental initiative.

I’m kind of a fan of the Australian system. Road tax is fixed amount, based off the weight of the car. Then each car sale has stamp duty charged on it - you have to pay it when registering the car in your own name. Not such a big fan of their luxury car tax though!

Personally, I'm a fan of taxing usage (and not the car itself). As said already, if you're paying €100k+ for a car, you're already handing over a big wedge in VRT & VAT.

The only realistic way of doing this is abolishing motortax (or at least vastly reduce the rates) and increase fuel taxes, so the more you use, the more you pay. It's the only fair system really (yes I know it would hammer rural people more than city dwellers). At least you would have the option of not using the car and it would encourage car sharing, bus, Luas, walking, cycling, whatever.
At least you can have a car for weekend duties without having to pay for its large periods of non-use.

Why should I have to pay totally unethical motortax rates on a 3 litre petrol that will only do 5k miles a year versus someone in a 1.6 diesel Passat (paying less than €200 pa) but doing 30,000 miles a year ? Morally & ethically wrong !:(

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Originally Posted by Big H

Personally, I'm a fan of taxing usage (and not the car itself). As said already, if you're paying €100k+ for a car, you're already handing over a big wedge in VRT & VAT.

The only realistic way of doing this is abolishing motortax (or at least vastly reduce the rates) and increase fuel taxes, so the more you use, the more you pay. It's the only fair system really (yes I know it would hammer rural people more than city dwellers). At least you would have the option of not using the car and it would encourage car sharing, bus, Luas, walking, cycling, whatever.
At least you can have a car for weekend duties without having to pay for its large periods of non-use.

Why should I have to pay totally unethical motortax rates on a 3 litre petrol that will only do 5k miles a year versus someone in a 1.6 diesel Passat (paying less than €200 pa) but doing 30,000 miles a year ? Morally & ethically wrong !:(

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This is the only way it should be done in my view. Remove the annual charge and tax the fuel.

id rather see a usage tax instead of what we have now
tax on the overall annual mileage (more miles you cover the lower you pay as you car is then looked at as a necessity)

with fuel as it is already it could price a lot of the bigger cars off the roads altogether if you go down the road of taxing fuel

priushaus just doesn't have the same ring to it

First things first. Dump on diesels. There is no reason for their cheap tax given the whole 'better for environment thing' is nonsense.

Second. Get rid of flat fee tax system and introduce it at petrol station.

Third. Transparency on road tax expenditure. I am after coming back from a trip to the Ring. I couldnt believe how much nicer the roads are in Wales/England!!!
2/3 of 2016 road tax was wasted on Irish Water.. 2/3s!!!! Mental. Nobody blinked an eye.


Next time you walking through a street full of cars or car park, take a look at how many cars dont have 'full window'. People cant afford tax/nct/insurace. Things will get much worse for everyone next year.

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Originally Posted by SmokyMo

Next time you walking through a street full of cars or car park, take a look at how many cars dont have 'full window'. People cant afford tax/nct/insurace. Things will get much worse for everyone next year.

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Spot on!!

Make it unavoidable, and not exactly tough to work out a reasonable fair system. The annual average mileage (15000km) and average tax (500) and added the average motor/MPG (Focus/40mpg) and put that on fuel.

If you are a petrol head with 3 cars, doing 20000km per annum, you get to run a daily 520d, the weekend M3 and the classic car.
If you are a Biddy with a Yaris getting a litre of milk and do 2000 km per annum

- The coffers improve as it can be avoided.
- Can't afford the fuel, you walk or use public transport.
- There is not need for a motor tax office and all that goes with it; put the employees to use in another sector; admin in health

Heck, a transferable tax disc would be an improvement, once it met or exceeded the required payment for the car you are using it for.

All well and good putting it on fuel but that'll effect everything from the local courier driver in his small van to the full on artics and public transport.

Be careful with the thinking behind putting extra tax on fuel, the costs of all the things you buy...from the food on your plate to the shirt on your back all have to go up in price as it will then cost more for every delivery vehicle to be fueled.
Honestly an annual tax is probably the only sensible way but it shouldn’t be at the rates we are currently paying and it should be put to good use, a bit like the tv license...wouldn’t mind paying it if they used it to make decent Telly instead of repeating shite from UK channels.

Edit: RossyB you just beat me to it there making that point [emoji23]


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Originally Posted by RossYB

All well and good putting it on fuel but that'll effect everything from the local courier driver in his small van to the full on artics and public transport.

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It wouldn't - its a business expense which they could reclaim, same applies to taxi drivers.

We might as well be talking about what we're going to spend our Euromillions spending on by the way - don't see the current approach changing anytime soon!

As Ken said....like they have VAT reclaimable on Diesel for businesses and Green Diesel for the farmers, etc.
The catch is cross border refuelling....but with Brexit, the chance to change might be there.

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Originally Posted by Curran

The catch is cross border refuelling....

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Given that every UK, Polish, Lithuanian and Romanian car in the country would be contributing to 'road tax' when they fill up here though, it should help offset the cross border business.

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Originally Posted by NickThePartsGuy

id rather see a usage tax instead of what we have now
tax on the overall annual mileage (more miles you cover the lower you pay as you car is then looked at as a necessity)

with fuel as it is already it could price a lot of the bigger cars off the roads altogether if you go down the road of taxing fuel

priushaus just doesn't have the same ring to it

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I think it would be the opposite, a the moment, a big petrol is 10 times the road tax of your average ecobox, if you were to put it on fuel, it would be twice to three times the tax paid on an ecobox. Also if you're running multiple cars, you can use them as you please rather than having to declare them on and off the road in three month stints.

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Originally Posted by kdevitt

Given that every UK, Polish, Lithuanian and Romanian car in the country would be contributing to 'road tax' when they fill up here though, it should help offset the cross border business.

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Good point sir!!

Plus track days, dyno runs, field / slab cars...any non roadworthy motors! :p

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Originally Posted by kdevitt

It wouldn't - its a business expense which they could reclaim, same applies to taxi drivers.

We might as well be talking about what we're going to spend our Euromillions spending on by the way - don't see the current approach changing anytime soon!

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You can't reclaim VAT on passenger transport so it's not that easy. (I drive a bus but maybe taxis are different?)

I try not to think about topics like that or government/politics in general. It will never put you in a good mood! haha

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Originally Posted by RossYB

You can't reclaim VAT on passenger transport so it's not that easy. (I drive a bus but maybe taxis are different?)

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We're are talking about a charge which doesn't exist, not VAT :D The point is that they could very easily reimburse haulage companies, taxi drivers etc if they need to - mandatory use of fuel cards, mileage logging like NZ etc.

Its not going to happen anyway - no government will introduce it imo as it will be seen to be 'anti-country' and pro-Dublin.

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Originally Posted by kdevitt

We're are talking about a charge which doesn't exist, not VAT :D The point is that they could very easily reimburse haulage companies, taxi drivers etc if they need to - mandatory use of fuel cards, mileage logging like NZ etc.

Its not going to happen anyway - no government will introduce it imo as it will be seen to be 'anti-country' and pro-Dublin.

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Which of course it would be. All this talk about leaving the car at home and using the bus/Luas/Dart makes me laugh. Here in rural Donegal the car is the only means of transport available. There is no choice. The green brigade with their so-called 'carbon-tax' say that putting up the cost of fuel will encourage people to ditch the car. How can you when there is no alternative? People need to cop on and realise that Dublin isn't the entire country.

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Originally Posted by Diarmaidom

Which of course it would be. All this talk about leaving the car at home and using the bus/Luas/Dart makes me laugh. Here in rural Donegal the car is the only means of transport available. There is no choice. The green brigade with their so-called 'carbon-tax' say that putting up the cost of fuel will encourage people to ditch the car. How can you when there is no alternative? People need to cop on and realise that Dublin isn't the entire country.

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You have an alternative to buy a more economical car and minimize what you have to pay in emissions based taxation, no?

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Originally Posted by kdevitt

You have an alternative to buy a more economical car and minimize what you have to pay in emissions based taxation, no?

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I live out in the boonies myself and do about 30k km a year, I still think tax on fuel makes the most sense!

Its the fairest way, and if you want to put an "environmental" spin on it, it applies too.

All businesses etc could claim it back if required as previously mentioned, I think its madness we don't do it this way!

Considering I've never taxed my M3 and it's cheaper to get stopped add pay the fine evnn if caught twice a month, I'd be worse off paying tax on fuel as I've nothing boring (I mean efficient enough to do better than 30mpg) such as the Defender I use e every day, X5, M3 and have a Golf GTI for my othwet half.


Some sort of change has to be made alright however to make it too tempting to dodge tax on cars that are only occasionally driven like I do with the M3 and also to get rid of all the hassle of changing ownership on cars all the time or even just having to declare them off the road constantly.