E39 Brake pipe replacement

[318is-joe]

Hi lads,

Have to replace my pretty good condition (but nct failed) brake lines (not hoses).
Has anyone gone down the route of getting preformed steel ones from BMW realoem lists them at a reasonable cost but I'm not sure if they are still available.
These are the ones that connect under the offside or drivers seat run down the side of the sill, then up over the tank to the two rear stub axle hoses.

I realise I'll probably have to drop the prop out of the way, then the exhaust and then the tank to get them in.

Then we have the copper route which I'd consider but always thought it sub par to the steel especially when you compare the wall thickness between the two. I've often seen copper that's got a whack of a stone and pisses fluid straight away, I've never seen that with steel.

Just wanted to get your opinions

TIA

[Tomas_S]

Had it done myself with copper before. Don't have to drop anything just take pictures before you remove them to make the same shape.

[Smokey Bear]

If they are in good condition would yo not clean them down and paint them, wait 28 days and book the car back in for a new test. I don't like the idea of copper myself.

Theres a place in cork that will make brake lines from steel if you bring in your old ones or give a measurement, Joe Desmond Motor factors in Turners Cross should google up their number.

[318is-joe]

If they are in good condition would yo not clean them down and paint them, wait 28 days and book the car back in for a new test. I don't like the idea of copper myself.

Theres a place in cork that will make brake lines from steel if you bring in your old ones or give a measurement, Joe Desmond Motor factors in Turners Cross should google up their number.

I don't like the idea of copper either smokey. The problem I have is that the place most of the guys look at is beside the tank - I have been doing the old paint / wait / drive routine for a few years now but even though the guy scrapped the paint from the pipe beside the tank and failed it, to be honest with you when I got under her properly and had a look at pipes above the subframe it kinda convinced me that in all honesty I couldn't say it wouldn't leak. Now, i know there is a fair difference in the wall of the steel and the wall of a 3/16 copper pipe but still, they were fairly crusty. that said it wasn't failed from being inspected there, and what it was failed on looked fine.

Now, onto the copper. Copper is banned in Germany and USA as a fix, and rightly so. It work hardens easily, and brake pipes are work intensive, both in installation and in service.
In install it work hardens being bent and flared, and in cars these actions often happen where it lands on a consumer like a calliper or cylinder. so it's worked being bent into a calliper and flared at the union, then when the pressure comes on in panic braking it sheers or bursts. In service it needs to be supported or clipped every 3 inches or so, because if it rattles or vibrates it work hardens also.
Kunifer is TUV rated in germany and is the only repair allowed - it's an alloy of copper and nickel, is easily shaped and flared like copper but doesn't work harden half as easily and doesn't need to be supported as much (clipped) either. So I'm going with that. Had to order it from UK mind - never heard of in my neck of the woods.

[rebel.ranter]

Has anyone gone down the route of getting preformed steel ones from BMW realoem lists them at a reasonable cost but I'm not sure if they are still available.

TIA

Just do you know the ones supplied by BMW are not actually as pre-formed as you think. They come with the correct connectors and in a preformed length but you still have to bend them to suit.

[318is-joe]

Just do you know the ones supplied by BMW are not actually as pre-formed as you think. They come with the correct connectors and in a preformed length but you still have to bend them to suit.

+1 - yep, found that out when I was weighing up my options - thanks rebel.ranter!

[Tristan]

Joe, most garages (like me) have flaring tools for brake lines. I exclusively use Cupronickel / CuNiFer (the chemical symbols for Copper, Nickel and Iron, btw)

Once you use it once, you'd NEVER again use Copper.

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[318is-joe]

Joe, most garages (like me) have flaring tools for brake lines. I exclusively use Cupronickel / CuNiFer (the chemical symbols for Copper, Nickel and Iron, btw)

Once you use it once, you'd NEVER again use Copper.

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CuNiFer - every day is a school day Tristan ;-)
Cheers, after doing a bit of research into the material side, I knew i wanted Cunifer / Do they spell it Kunifer in Germany or something? Iron is to difficult to work with and copper is too soft. Do you use a hydraulic flaring set up or hand driven dies?
I almost bought a sykes hydraulic kit once (does steel also) but it was a bit pricey for the use I'd give it (hobby mechanic).

[Tristan]

This is shit.
http://m.ebay.ie/itm/Teng-Tools-TTTF...8AAOSwezVWuK2s

This is handy, works a lot of the time, but not on steel, which is a nuisance if you're just replacing part of a line.
http://m.ebay.ie/itm/Brake-Pipe-Flar...AOSw5HJXK4f%7E

This is pretty darn good, sometimes but not always struggles on steel
http://www.uktools.com/flaremaster2-...l-p-11497.html

This is the daddy, awkward but not impossible to use on the car though as it's designed to be vise mounted. That's what I use most.
http://primetools.co.uk/product/syke...r-van-hgv-kit/

Doddle to use, laughs at steel.

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