Ireland Declares Climate Emergency

[CitizenKane]

I completely agree with all of this. To my mind increasing taxes on something that people rely on in order to live and work is simply unjustifiable unless you give them a proper alternative. Otherwise it would be like taxing oxygen. How many average people in Ireland right now could afford to go out and buy a brand new EV? Either give tax incentives to make EVs more affordable, or offer a functional public transport system, or both.

[dergside]

The i3 (and all other full EV's) attract a 14% of OMSP rate VRT (Band A1).

We probably are

Re. i3, while technically the VRT rate is 14%, the VRT rebate on full EV of 5k means that the actual VRT you'd pay new is a 3 figure sum. Beyond 6 months and the figure is zero.

[dergside]

While idling away a little time I came across a late e61 530d (yes, its an SE!) on a website and did a little bit of digging to see what NOX figures looked like and how they'd impact on importing one, to the level of cost publicised a few weeks back, after the budget.

Firstly, there's a distinctly limited array of VRT Calculator options for these now and none that matched the spec of the one I was looking at (e.g. CO2 figures). So, I looked at a saloon instead just to get a ballpark. The saloon disappeared off the calculator sometime in 2018 but one matching a 2009 SE was there today, but the VRT is about double what it would have been if it had been left in the same VRT depreciation category as when it was last seen in 2018, but just got a year older (VRT now €3534).

Secondly, these are EU4 compliant, so even though they have particulate filters, it means a fairly high NOX level (222 mg/km). To put it in context, an EU6 complient F10 530d would have a NOX figure of less than 40 mg/km. With the proposed NOX related element of VRT, the car would attract an additional charge of €4150, if I've done my sums correctly.

That's a pretty hefty hit on the NOX output. That'll kill any market for imports of something like this stone dead (who says that tax policy can't influence decision making?). If they start to take a similar approach with roadtax, any of us wafting about in old smokers will need to break out the lube again......

[Curran]

....any of us wafting about in old smokers will need to break out the lube again......

But will they go after the cars already on a given tax system; i.e: CC based / CO2 based?? Or just target the 2020 registrations onwards.

The NOX addition on top of VRT will certainly hit the import of some cars extremely hard, but there will likely be a small window of opportunity to save on limited cars say between 2014/5/6 onwards, which will grow as the years go on when say a 2019/20 model will drop to the values that would open to a wider audience in 2023/24

If I checked up right, the likes of an 2014 M135i would be an additional 300 on top of current VRT rates from Jan 1st, given its 60g/km NOX rate...that's not going to put anyone off.

[Dave]

While idling away a little time I came across a late e61 530d (yes, its an SE!) on a website and did a little bit of digging to see what NOX figures looked like and how they'd impact on importing one, to the level of cost publicised a few weeks back, after the budget.

Firstly, there's a distinctly limited array of VRT Calculator options for these now and none that matched the spec of the one I was looking at (e.g. CO2 figures). So, I looked at a saloon instead just to get a ballpark. The saloon disappeared off the calculator sometime in 2018 but one matching a 2009 SE was there today, but the VRT is about double what it would have been if it had been left in the same VRT depreciation category as when it was last seen in 2018, but just got a year older (VRT now €3534).

Secondly, these are EU4 compliant, so even though they have particulate filters, it means a fairly high NOX level (222 mg/km). To put it in context, an EU6 complient F10 530d would have a NOX figure of less than 40 mg/km. With the proposed NOX related element of VRT, the car would attract an additional charge of €4150, if I've done my sums correctly.

That's a pretty hefty hit on the NOX output. That'll kill any market for imports of something like this stone dead (who says that tax policy can't influence decision making?). If they start to take a similar approach with roadtax, any of us wafting about in old smokers will need to break out the lube again......

All going to plan I'll be staring a €2350 road tax bill in the face in the new year, I hope it doesn't go up any more, it's already obscene, but who knows. It's gotta be the CO2 diesels that they're targeting, that's where they'll make their money, so hopefully the big petrols hang on for a while.

Funny you should talk about NOx output, some of the more interesting cars are falling under the radar, most of boosted petrols are putting out less than 15 mg/km, so N54, N55, B58, we may see some interesting cars returning to the shore.




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[dergside]

All going to plan I'll be staring a €2350 road tax bill in the face in the new year, I hope it doesn't go up any more, it's already obscene, but who knows. It's gotta be the CO2 diesels that they're targeting, that's where they'll make their money, so hopefully the big petrols hang on for a while.

Funny you should talk about NOx output, some of the more interesting cars are falling under the radar, most of boosted petrols are putting out less than 15 mg/km, so N54, N55, B58, we may see some interesting cars returning to the shore.

Given that the number of nice petrol engined cars post 2008 are fairly few it inevitably, eventually, pushes someone like me towards nice diesel cars from 2008 to onwards. Without having looked at a huge number of examples yet, it looks like most EU4 and possibly many EU5 diesels will be priced beyond viability either through VRT supplements or, in due course, road-tax penalties. I'm thinking about changing the daily (aren't I always!), and tbh I'm finding it hard to follow a path towards the sort of car I'd prefer and feeling that I ought to just play it safe.

But will they go after the cars already on a given tax system; i.e: CC based / CO2 based?? Or just target the 2020 registrations onwards.

The NOX addition on top of VRT will certainly hit the import of some cars extremely hard, but there will likely be a small window of opportunity to save on limited cars say between 2014/5/6 onwards, which will grow as the years go on when say a 2019/20 model will drop to the values that would open to a wider audience in 2023/24

If I checked up right, the likes of an 2014 M135i would be an additional 300 on top of current VRT rates from Jan 1st, given its 60g/km NOX rate...that's not going to put anyone off.

The key to making any progress towards emissions goals mean that they have to force "old" (post 2008) up to and including EU5 off the road ahead of "schedule". We know that this doesn't stand up to scrutiny in fact but its a populist message that through repetition will be an easy sell to those who are too busy to think for themselves. I think they'll do it by adding NOX as an additional, penal, factor to the pot of things that determine road-tax. We've always proven very sensitive to road tax as a tool for determining habits and choices.

[318 iS Cosmos]

I just checked my car on the VRT calculator. Well, the only option is the 235bhp version (mine has 231). Just a shade under €1,200, but €780 for a 535D!

[dergside]

..... but €780 for a 535D!

Better hurry and get one so, if I've done my sums right the NOX penalty on the 535d will be approx €3350 come January. That'll make our previous complaints about the injustice of the VRT system pale in comparison!

[Bayerische]

Will this new system also affect 30 year old classics...or will the vintage VRT remain at €200.

[dergside]

Not a lot of detail yet or the process or rules yet....