Ireland Declares Climate Emergency

[Big H]

the reality is that I'm covering 30-40% of my running around in this car on battery

Assuming daily use - how often are you plugging it in ?

For longer range EV's (400km+ per charge), it's obviously not a major issue, but fumbling about taking charger's out of the boot, plugging in and then having to repeat the (reverse) process again later in the evening (invariably in the pissing rain) would grow tiring after a while for many no doubt....

[dergside]

Assuming daily use - how often are you plugging it in ?

For longer range EV's (400km+ per charge), it's obviously not a major issue, but fumbling about taking charger's out of the boot, plugging in and then having to repeat the (reverse) process again later in the evening (invariably in the pissing rain) would grow tiring after a while for many no doubt....

Its charged daily Mon-Fri in the office car park and occassionally at home at the weekends. Over recent months I've had another car taxed and that's what I've been mostly using at the weekends - e36 over the summer months, e63 now for the winter, so it does mean that the 530e isn't doing a great deal of weekend work when charging from the mains at home is painfully slow. Dithering means I still haven't put in a wall box there.

Re. cables, what you say is true. Even with this one, the Type 2 cable is always loose in the boot. The boot size is already compromised by the battery pack compared to a regular G30 so space lost with the cable, or things on the back seat rather than the boot, etc. is a little bit of a faff, but because we haven't had cause to fill the car to the gunwales for a holiday in Europe (or even more importantly been compromised in how much wine we can return with ) that hasn't been a significant real world problem thus far. As far as the wet and windy nights are concerned, practice means that the time spent getting wet hooking it up or unhooking it is a matter of seconds really.

[Felix]

Assuming daily use - how often are you plugging it in ?

For longer range EV's (400km+ per charge), it's obviously not a major issue, but fumbling about taking charger's out of the boot, plugging in and then having to repeat the (reverse) process again later in the evening (invariably in the pissing rain) would grow tiring after a while for many no doubt....

That's exactly why I got a tethered charger installed at home. Very quick to plug in.

PHEVs need to be charged to make sense environmentally. I think most people investing in PHEV are doing so for flexibility. Petrol range when needed (like Dergside's situation), battery for economy and lowered environmental impact. My X5 45e has a range of 80km real world on battery, which is a lot more usable than the 30km I was getting from the 530e. But a lot of people have low mileage and a 530e could easily be run on mostly battery.
Over their lifetime EVs have a lower environmental impact than any combustion engine car.

[Big H]

Some interesting stats from the EPA today - despite the total lockdown for much of 2020, there was only a 15.7% decline in transport emmissions.

This was offset with an increase in household emmissions by 9% due to primarily working from home !

So motorists are being totally nailed for a 6.7% reduction in transport emmissions - does this not indicate that regular car drivers doing their usual commute are not the major issue here ? Yes, further electrification will bring the figures down substantially more, but should we be also looking elsewhere for major transport emmissions reductions ? Planes, trains, trucks, buses, tractors etc ?

[CitizenKane]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-bill-support/

Possibly some welcome news for petrol heads?

[CitizenKane]

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/com...938995792.html

Interesting article that echoes concerns some on here have discussed, not just about EVs but also hybrids when batteries start to approach the end of their useful life.

I don’t know about you all but I don’t think I’ll be moving away from petrol or diesel any time soon.

[dergside]

I can only read the first paragraph because of the paywall, but now that car prices (generally, not specifically EV) have stopped defying gravity we're back at a stage where anyone shocked by a significant value drop in year 1 of ownership has probably never bought a brand new car before. Very few members of the public sell a car at a year old, so to some extent the residual value at that age is irrelevant, other than its use for a sensational piece of journalism. How depreciation averages per year over 3 or 4 years is a more relevant measure, and so far there is nothing to suggest that EV's will perform notably worse than near equivalent ICE models.

I see people at work that have moved in to EV's in the past year or two, many typically wouldn't have bought new in the past, so they've probably spent more than they usually would, and experiencing a depreciation pattern they would previously not have been exposed to. Whatever about a short term deviation from normal depreciation patterns, it was always inevitable that patterns would eventually somewhat align with alternatively fuelled vehicles.

Given the uncertainty, about the lifespan and long-term degradation of battery's, and their current replacement costs, its likely that as they age they may drop below the ICE equivalents. Over time, its possible that battery replacement costs will fall, or repair methods will emerge, that prolong their lives and moderates the picture a bit.

Technical developments and economies of scale of increasing volume are already reducing the premium for EV over ICE, at the same time that battery ranges and charging infrastructure have been improving - Tesla's pricing policy. for evidence. I can see either new or extended subsidies on new EV's or tax policy acting on ICE cars over the medium+ term skewing the chart. This will continue. A lot of these things will be enough for plenty of people to make the move to EV.

I suspect that many here are aware enough of car technologies to be enthusiastic for developments, but also cautious to the risks and alternatives. Most people here tend to buy used rather than new anyway, so we may be a bit slower to adopt for any combination of those reasons.

With 3 years of plug-in running just completed, my experience its both effective and cost effective. On the commute and short runs, its very efficient and about 50% more economical in the whole as the 6 pot 530i that went before it, with fairly similar power, etc. Other than a charging port processor that I've commented on in another thread, its been pretty much faultless and servicing and maintenance costs have been low. The logical comparison is with a 520d. Its about a draw in many respects, but the 530e has 60 extra BHP and better performance. The only noticeable complaint is it sounds like a 4 cylinder, but a 520d wouldn't solve that.

[Big H]

Technical developments and economies of scale of increasing volume are already reducing the premium for EV over ICE, at the same time that battery ranges and charging infrastructure have been improving - Tesla's pricing policy. for evidence.

I would contradict this by saying the huge influx of (stupidly named) Chinese car manufacturers dumping their (heavily Chinese government subsidised) cars onto the Irish market is driving down the RRP for other manufacturers.

Tesla's pricing policy (ie. slashing prices) has been driven somewhat by their sales falling below targets and the residual values tanking accordingly. The range lies aren't helping their cause - there's some staggering stories coming out of the US around Tesla's remote service center tactics too.

I would warrant that the vast majority of new electric cars are PCP (and similarly) financed, hence buyers don't care about resale values due to having the used value at the end of the contract agreed upfront. Those who took out the credit union loan will be in for some shock when they go to trade in their ID4 in 3 years time - the Golf TDI buyer will be pleasantly surprised.

Talk to anyone in the trade and they won't touch most electric cars over say 6 yo as a trade in - they can't shift them and won't stand over them either from a warranty standpoint. No such thing as a cheap repair on an electric car. Insurers are also waking up to the fact that even minor prangs can bring huge repair bills, hence they carry insurance premiums over their equivalent ICE cousins.

Look at the prices in auction for electric cars - nobody is touching them, hence major bargains to be had if you're a betting man/woman/they........

[Big H]

I would contradict this by saying the huge influx of (stupidly named) Chinese car manufacturers dumping their (heavily Chinese government subsidised) cars onto the Irish market is driving down the RRP for other manufacturers.

Seems that VW have taken a huge leap on this front - just announced that they're knocking €12k off their ID4 in Ireland:

https://www.independent.ie/life/moto...407120076.html

“Customers can now purchase an ID.4 from €41,565 after grants – €12,365 cheaper versus the 2023 price."

I'd be pretty pissed if I just bought a new one last year.....

[kdevitt]

Seems that VW have taken a huge leap on this front - just announced that they're knocking €12k off their ID4 in Ireland:

https://www.independent.ie/life/moto...407120076.html

“Customers can now purchase an ID.4 from €41,565 after grants – €12,365 cheaper versus the 2023 price."

I'd be pretty pissed if I just bought a new one last year.....

Just said that last night to the missus when I saw the advert. Thats quite the bold move to p1ss all over your existing customers like that.