Ireland Declares Climate Emergency

[Ketron]

Here's a link to the full document that the newspaper pieces are based on. A little light bed time reading, perhaps?

https://assets.gov.ie/19116/c447474f...4b7a84fbed.pdf

Ah yes I like the tactic, get everyone on diesel cars, wait until younger/less well off people can afford the CO2 based tax regime, and then tax the hell out of them! Keeping with that plan they should lower taxes on cars worth over 100k, seems only fair. Looking at the figures, it appears to be a slide back to similar figures pre the introduction of the CO2 based system, albeit with a much higher maximum tax rate.

[CitizenKane]

Here we go!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...uced-1.4038187

[SmokyMo]

Is road tax staying the same?

[CitizenKane]

I’m not sure, but also this: https://m.independent.ie/business/bu...-38561734.html

[Dave]

I’m not sure, but also this: https://m.independent.ie/business/bu...-38561734.html

That's a negligible increase. I also checked the Nox output of an E92 M3 and it's less than a G11 530d.


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[CitizenKane]

That's a negligible increase.

Maybe so, but you can see the direction this is going.

Just to be clear, I am not skeptical of climate change. But, I am skeptical of all governments, particularly when something like climate change gives them a carte blanche to raise taxes.

[dergside]

..... particularly when something like climate change gives them a carte blanche to raise taxes.

Agreed, but tax policy has long been a key tool to affect behavioural change, not just in terms of transport.

A perfect example of both the danger of it and the effect of it is the change in tax policy around VRT in 2008 when it changed to CO2 based charging instead of CC based. It was somewhat misguided in terms of creating additional problems while addressing the stated desire to reduce CO2 output (incidentally, this is something that the Green's have, unsurprisingly, kept quiet about in this whole debate, but need to be pulled up on) - validating your Carte Blanche comment, while also clearly having a very significant effect on people's actions in diverting them from petrol to diesel cars.

[Big H]

A perfect example of both the danger of it and the effect of it is the change in tax policy around VRT in 2008 when it changed to CO2 based charging instead of CC based.

The big difference between now & 2008 was that taxes were drastically reduced for those who bought low CO2 emmitting cars. There's no carrot approach here anymore, only the stick approach.

If they were serious about drastically reducing CO2 & NOx then electric cars should have zero VAT & VRT and zero Road Tax. People would move then I can assure you when they would be far cheaper than an equivalent ICE car !

The net cost to the exchequer would be neglidgible owing to reducing EU fines for exceeding our environmantal targets.

[dergside]

The big difference between now & 2008 was that taxes were drastically reduced for those who bought low CO2 emmitting cars.

While its true that the rates for lower CO2 emitting cars was reduced, the aspect that really mattered was that it significantly affected the relative difference between otherwise broadly similar cars. IIRC, the price difference between an e90 320i SE and a 320d SE was around €5k before the change and dropped to around €2k after (in actual fact both dropped in price, but the 320d dropped by more than the 320i). That made it much easier for people to "do the right thing" - as they were being told it was - and buy the 320d that they couldn't have justified the additional relative cost of before.

Similarly, the fact that the full EV i3 attracts no VRT narrows the gap in price to comparable (functionally) ICE cars to overcome some of the manufacturing cost disadvantages. Now, jack up the VRT, etc. on the ICE cars to narrow that gap further, or reverse it, and suddenly people start seeing that the cost of "doing the right thing" is justifiable. That's tax policy influencing choices and habits. Watch the budget for VRT changes that encourage full EV or Hybrid choices over ICE and we'll see more people shift to EV or Hybrid. Simples....

[Big H]

Similarly, the fact that the full EV i3 attracts no VRT narrows the gap in price to comparable (functionally) ICE cars to overcome some of the manufacturing cost disadvantages.

The i3 (and all other full EV's) attract a 14% of OMSP rate VRT (Band A1).

My point being that if this was reduced to 0%, then prices would slip under the comparible ICE car, hence people will absolutely make the move.

Edit: I think we're trying to make the same point here...