Ireland Declares Climate Emergency

[Big H]

New 5 series - it'll flourish when they kill the ICE version, concentrate on the i5, find some way to mitigate the risk of financial ruin for second and subsequent owners of huge replacement parts bill and drop the price by €40k.

Here's a good spec used i5 for a (bargain...) €103k - stunningly BMW still only offering a 2 yr warranty - surely these cars will be almost unsellable after this warranty period expires - as you say, who is going to risk financial ruin on a used one with no warranty (no doubt the aftermarket warranty companies will have a heap of clauses regarding electric components/batteries - 'that's wear and tear sir'). BMW's own extended warranty will be horrendously priced no doubt too.

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/bmw...journey=Search

[CitizenKane]

I must have missed the memo that a 5 Series had become a 100k+ car.

[Big H]

I must have missed the memo that a 5 Series had become a 100k+ car.

A used 5 series even......

[wcooba]

Here's a good spec used i5 for a (bargain...) €103k - stunningly BMW still only offering a 2 yr warranty - surely these cars will be almost unsellable after this warranty period expires - as you say, who is going to risk financial ruin on a used one with no warranty (no doubt the aftermarket warranty companies will have a heap of clauses regarding electric components/batteries - 'that's wear and tear sir'). BMW's own extended warranty will be horrendously priced no doubt too.

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/bmw...journey=Search

It surely has 3 year manufacturer warranty from the registration date which overrides dealers 2yr used car warranty. In addition battery warranty is 8yrs / 160kkm


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[dergside]

... - surely these cars will be almost unsellable after this warranty period expires - as you say, who is going to risk financial ruin on a used one with no warranty (no doubt the aftermarket warranty companies will have a heap of clauses regarding electric components/batteries - 'that's wear and tear sir'). BMW's own extended warranty will be horrendously priced no doubt too.

True – BMW were good for informal "goodwill" gestures (Nikasil, e46 subframe mount rips, etc.). They were goodwill, so, it could be hit and miss whether you'd get it, but if it had a dealer history many got something for cars that were long out of warranty (subframe/floor was done on our old 328i Touring at ~6 years old). Dealer history didn’t help with a charging port ECU issue on the 530e last year, I pushed for a goodwill gesture, but got a flat refusal and a €2.5k bill for the parts & labour. A pain, but could be rationalized in the context of a €25k+ car. Some years from now when the value is less, even the risk of a bill like that be the kiss of death for resale.

The solution to that will probably be risk transfer. Manufacturers really would like us all to move to a subscription model, like Netflix – one easy monthly payment, so they get a nice steady stream of income rather than a chunk of wedge every few years. That will give them a chance at extending that stream to second, and may third, users, but to do that they need to have more control of supply/demand of vehicles to keep those streams at profitable levels. If they have more exposure to the risk of catastrophic costs like battery failure, then you can be fairly sure they’ll find ways to design and build them (components and cars) to reduce the financial risk to them.

In the meantime, I expect to be buried in the 530e (at least until I next look at Auto Trader and get excited about something ). People are suddenly getting more conscious of the risk of big bills (even a theoretical risk) and now erring on the side of caution in terms of what they’ll pay for one. This time last year everyone was buying EV’s. Suddenly people are spooked, and everyone is running for cover. I heard a story recently of a woman who bought a current shape Leaf in 2019 and gently used it since that even Nissan wouldn’t offer her a trade-in price for against a new Leaf. Tesla and others didn’t want to know either. Its, effectively, worth nothing as a trade-in. It doesn’t take long for stories like that to scare the buyers, and cause climate conscious people to lose their ideals next time they change.

On the other hand, a half price boggo EV at 2-3 years old could be a good punt if you were prepared to take a calculated risk, and run it for the exceedingly long term, or until it fails, goes on fire, etc.

[CitizenKane]

A used 5 series even......

It didn’t even occur to me that it was used but of course it is if it’s on Carzone. How did we end up here?

[Big H]

It surely has 3 year manufacturer warranty from the registration date which overrides dealers 2yr used car warranty. In addition battery warranty is 8yrs / 160kkm

Yes, that would be the case. What happens after the 3 year PCP/Warranty term is up though ? They are then dumped onto the used market where you either pay through the nose for a BMW Approved Used car with a year's warranty or else take your chances with a private sale....

The 8 year battery warranty is an interesting one. I've never seen the paperwork on these 'battery' warranties, but as per Dergside's issue with the charging point ECU and similar other multiple ECU/Module's/Ancillary's associated with the electric system, I'd assume they're not covered. They're the things that will get you - there's no cheap fixes with any of them as every time the car goes into a garage, it's nearly always a 4 figure sum to have rectified.

Think I'll stick with my few hundred quid for a new battery/alternator in my ICE for the time being, thanks. I'm a big fan of the bangernomics principle (buying cars at c.10yo at the bottom of their depreciation curve) for the past 20 years and it hasn't failed me yet. That way of motoring will soon be eroded I fear as maintaining any modern BEV/Hybrid at 10yo would be totally prohibitive - the way they want it of course - throw it away and finance/subscribe to a new one.....

[eamo]

Yes, that would be the case. What happens after the 3 year PCP/Warranty term is up though ? They are then dumped onto the used market where you either pay through the nose for a BMW Approved Used car with a year's warranty or else take your chances with a private sale....

The 8 year battery warranty is an interesting one. I've never seen the paperwork on these 'battery' warranties, but as per Dergside's issue with the charging point ECU and similar other multiple ECU/Module's/Ancillary's associated with the electric system, I'd assume they're not covered. They're the things that will get you - there's no cheap fixes with any of them as every time the car goes into a garage, it's nearly always a 4 figure sum to have rectified.

Think I'll stick with my few hundred quid for a new battery/alternator in my ICE for the time being, thanks. I'm a big fan of the bangernomics principle (buying cars at c.10yo at the bottom of their depreciation curve) for the past 20 years and it hasn't failed me yet. That way of motoring will soon be eroded I fear as maintaining any modern BEV/Hybrid at 10yo would be totally prohibitive - the way they want it of course - throw it away and finance/subscribe to a new one.....

BMW dealer will give 2nd hand car like this a 2 year BMW AUC warranty

[wcooba]

I hear you Big H but IMO it’s just a matter of time to have EV specialised indies here. I’ve seen them already in other countries, so aftermarket repair costs are more reasonable. You can even argue EVs are easier to fix than ICE engines….

[dergside]

I'm a big fan of the bangernomics principle (buying cars at c.10yo at the bottom of their depreciation curve) for the past 20 years and it hasn't failed me yet.

I've also done this for years, but in a slightly different way. I've paid (relatively) top money for cars a bit over-age, but usually with low miles and/or interesting spec's (e.g. 2010, a 40k mile 10 year old 523i SE with m-tech pack, landed and cleared for €5.5k, 2012 - 30k mile 2004 330Ci Sport, 2014 - a silly spec 2002 530i Sport Individual landed and cleared for about the same as the 523i, etc.). That worked well, but doesn't work so much today. Prices for the current equivalent of these cars has gone silly. A micro-mileage 2012 F10 535i from Japan for sale in the UK at the moment would cost over €20k landed. That kills the case for them. Last time out I bought a 3 year old 530e. I have a car allowance that I use to run the daily driver. With the e60 I had before it the allowance was mostly used up by the running and maintenance costs of an older car - road tax (old CC based), servicing, consumables and repairs, etc. With the 530e, I split the allowance, one part for running and maintenance and another to cover depreciation, or effectively a capital contribution to replacing it in due course. The running costs pot has covered everything, including the €2.5k bill I mentioned earlier. Given the mad market we've had since C-19, its only started depreciating in the last 6-12 months. The "net book value" of it to me is about €10k and its current market value is probably €20k-ish. Even without that mad market, I'd have enough in the pot to replace it with similar again, which was the plan. That kind of kills the argument for my version of Bangernomics at the moment. I suspect the Bangernomics costs will probably normalize over the next 12 months or so, because of economics, etc. but it would have been the wrong decision to make for the past 3-ish years in my case.